Northern Gardening; Diane Booth and Jan Mesenbring

And it's another time for northern gardening here on North Shore radio I'm your host Paula sounded really glad to be with you and I have two guests in the studio today. It's always fun to have actual real live guests in the studio as opposed to on the phone. And we've got Diane booth from the Cook County Extension Office with us. Hey Diane. Hi Paula. And also Dan MSM bring who's been a master gardener for 12. This is her 12th year now so she's bringing lots of experience. Thanks Jan. So much for being here today. It's a pleasure. And as far as talking about northern gardening here in the balmy month of March on the first day of spring as we're recording this program for you and to talk a little bit about what's coming up with gardening now and I have to confess that I actually did take a risky step and started some seeds in the greenhouse directly in the ground just to see what would happen. Figure well maybe this bench talk. Chances are nothing will happen. But because it gets up to 90 degrees during the day and probably 10:00 at night. Well if you cover them up with some plastic and some remain a you might have my own letter earlier

than yeah and Jan and I were just talking about her little experiment she's also doing something similar I couldn't wait any longer. So this past week I went out in the greenhouse with the lead a seat and got started. So I'm not. Going to risk it. Anxious to do what I know is that it's just seat of you know the right case scenarios nothing would come up. So that's all right to me and you go back two weeks later and try again that's right. Yeah absolutely so what if specifically did you put in your greenhouse I did just lettuces what I have 700 different varieties and what I've done this year and this is all experimental on my part because I've not tried it before. I don't heat my greenhouse until April mid April so I took the seven kinds of legacy and put them into an Eve strophe. I put my growing medium at the bottom. Of course I put in some holes for good drainage and then I put in the

growing material on top of that I put probably a good inch and a half of germination soil and then I planted the lettuce seeds and I hadn't tested any of the old seed for the germination on it so I just thought well I'm going to put in a little of everything and get it get it started and see if it works like you say you have 90 during the day and you also have 20 a night so we'll see. Yeah yeah and so are you hanging the eaves. Those troughs then. I did not I just set them on my potting bench for now. I'm not sure I'll see what happens if anything germinates there or not. I was talking to Diane about and I've read where people women their soil is ready thought out I should say in the spring they will take this eve and just slide the soil right into their trench in the garden and grow it. Yeah. You know I'm I'm trying a little of everything.

Yeah. Now tell me a little bit more about your green house itself. Oh it's it's a just a small hobby greenhouse probably seven and a half by 12 and a half about and I use that after my seedlings or seeds have germinated in the house. I move out into that facility and start potting up into individual pots whatever needs to be done and I grow in there until. Well I try to have some herbs ready by the time the farmer's market starts in the rest of it. I really don't aim until the first week of June probably because you never know when that cold night comes and so I don't aim for an EARLY START. And so do you have things directly in the ground at all in the greenhouse too. No I don't want to my girl only in pots. OK you know my little greenhouse is probably I don't know eight by eight or eight by 12 at the most a potential because I need to get out my tape for you know this one

but it's got two sections I can actually go right in the ground and there's one big shelf and so that's what I thought well that actually might give the best protection growing right in the ground the ground itself was as I was digging into it I could tell that it was thought out probably the first 12 inches or so already so. And then you hit hard sell to us hard underneath there but soil was warm and it was nice and I actually covered him up because the top of it was also very dry and I was more concerned about the moisture level that once I put the seeds in there actually took some of the snow from outside and shoveled it over the top of it. Well that should be and because then that's more Easter and it's going to melt in there and it actually may kind of balance some of that 90 degree during the day but I will have to regular water it probably every day. You could also try using soil cables and putting him on a thermostat and then having those soil cables come out only at night which would definitely increase your chances of getting earlier crops if you wanted to expend the energy to do that yeah.

Mr. Dan it's true in that you heat years in April how do you heat. I have just a small ceramic heater electric heater and I have it on a timer. Because obviously during the day I'm also ventilating into the yeah way too hot yeah. And so I do both ventilate when he comes on in the evening through the cold hours of the morning which is really the worst time. Yeah man goes off again. Yeah the other thing I wondered about putting starting really early like that in the spring especially in troughs is peas because they really like those cool time as they can cope with a little bit more. And that's another one that I have actually successfully grown in troughs and then slid that whole thing into the garden and it went really well it gave me a huge job I think I ended up with them three weeks earlier than usual which was that was great if it didn't yeah right absolutely. Well and growing and troughs is pretty common I mean they're starting to use it more I know Chuck wobble from Green Goddess produce they have there he's from

Minnesota. He actually they he and his partner have a winter CSA and we've had them on Northern gardening for just last week actually we rebroadcast well and he's actually going to be our guest speaker at the small footprint living fair on June 13th which is Saturday at 1:00 and know at noon 12 to 1 I think he'll be speaking and he's just finished his brand new book on growing old about his green house how to grow your own vegetables and. So we're really excited that he's coming because he's used a lot of these methods for a number of years and so excuse me that information will then be available. And you still you know the website actually if you type in Carol Ford garden Goddess I think you can come up with an image of an they'll show a picture of the inside the greenhouse with those troughs hanging in and they you do a lot of lettuce and other things that aren't as sensitive to light. The growing number of hours of daylight don't make a big

difference. And that's kind of the tricky thing as far as trying to grow you know pushing the seasons. And that's actually why I started my spinach seed because that's when the where the daylight hours by the time I get them out into the garden we've already getting you know 13 14 hours a day and it comes up bolting. Well that's not good. Well and there are a number of growers over by Chicago now. At the most this conference two years ago they featured someone one of the growers and what they're doing is they're actually taking a couple of of their big commercial greenhouses and they're planting spinach and lettuce and. Some of the more hardy varieties that do well and they will plant them in September October so that they get enough growth and then they will cover them over with plastic and remain and then they don't open their greenhouse again until early late winter actually like February or so. Yeah and they're able to start harvesting and they don't grow. But they're you know they'll be four or

five inches tall and then so then they're the first ones bringing in their fresh produce like March April into into the farmer's market. Nice. So they get a premium price for that produce but that could be done on a much smaller scale here as well. And people are also doing carrots that way as well. Yeah that's another one that Elliot Coleman does in the Four Seasons garden his lot with the carrot so in essence they're being held in states it's like a huge ground refrigerator or something and you can just keep harvesting. And there's a new variety called I think it's Merida Ammi are a that is supposed to be very good for doing that. And I'm actually going to try it this year I've never tried that so it should be fun to do. Yeah I ordered some as well and there's another is there another broccoli. 2 that's a winter I think we talked about that yeah go but I can't member the name of it now. Yeah. Oh well it's fun to push the parameters a little bit and that's what keeps it interesting. As you know when you Garden year after year and you're always trying to think of another angle that would be

you know increase your knowledge and be a fun thing to try just apart from going out the garden and putting in seeds. Yeah. Well and for people who are starting seeds indoors and don't have a greenhouse to put them then you certainly can use cold frames or even if you don't have a cold frame actually which is very easy to make even with strap bales and you know glass over the top or plastic over the top that will protect him a lot of people can. Can get a jump on the season by just simply taking some hoops even and putting plastic over the hoops and put that on their guard and warm up the garden bed and then plant things a little bit earlier as well so depending upon how dedicated a gardener you are I mean you can you can vary that season quite a bit. Yeah. How about starting inside and although that was a thing I wanted to think of too is that part of the reason we all start things that early is is that we can't resist the smell of earth and and the bundle of Green thank you. Oh I don't know maybe feel like they're up but

what are you starting to somethings now. It's just just getting started. And like I previously said it's because I really aim for June. I I don't aim for the real early flower or vegetable cabbages tomatoes any of those things because we get those frosty nights and so therefore I've just started. And most of what I've started at this point are the herbs because I would like to have those ready by mid me. And so therefore they're they've broken ground and I've also started some perennials. Speaking of the flower vein. Started some perennials that I've potted up into their first three inch probably pot and they are some that are grown quite easily probably will even usually they wouldn't have flowers until the second year but they will probably have flowers later in the summer. Late summer. Because you started them

secretly started so early. I have some of the Jacob's ladder in the Veronicas just you know some things that grow quite easily but yet really fill our gardens with color. Yeah have you tried that new ecan a ship primadonna. And you know started that one in a minor app now a little early but there they become fast I know. Yeah let's master than I thought they would you know I kind of went oh I come in faster than I expected. I like Star lotta Ribbeck Yes and I've taken some of the new ones this year though the ones that are just fresh only market and I've been holding off because I don't want them blooming in my house in May already. So anyway I've just held off on those. Yeah but that's very much like the second a show will grow too. What is the new one is that one of those double. No it's not the devil I'm kind of think what it is and that I've I brought it up I can't remember what it looks like now I don't like the doubles but it

is a newer one. There's so many colors there's so many new colors and forms. But it was it's I don't like the double so I know it's not a double. OK. Or one of the Tufty ones. Yeah. But I have actually I have quite a few things that I started this year I've got petunias that I've got growing because you have to start those fairly early in my Snapdragon those start those are up and doing well and up and doing well they're probably doing too well usually have to cut them back up a little unruly. But that seems to have strength and it only gets stronger. Yeah doing that. Yeah and that works pretty well for me you just get a little haircut. Let's see what else to have growing. I did start. I am doing some dried flowers this year and so I have started Larkspur which actually needs a cold treatment and then darkness and then I'm actually going to stick one of those I'm going to put out in a milk jug and with winter some sewing I've got ahead and out the dark period and now it needs to

go outside and so I'm going to stick it outside and see how well it does growing in a milk jug. My Larkspur seat is sitting in the refrigerator right now just wait a day and I'm going to put it into the ground but speaking of that outside cold treatment this year also I'm experimenting with. The Winter Garden using the milk jugs and for just economics sake I just use some annual seeds that I have marigolds and Clio me I believe is what I've got started out there and I don't know. Would you like to hear a little bit more about just what I need so I you know you used a milk jug or something gallon jug size and cut it in half. Making sure you have probably 6 or 8 inches of depth there for soil and you but it has to stay attached or it's best to stay attached to

the handle area so you can kind of fold it back. And then put your. Drainage holds in the bottom and have to be sure and have good drainage and then add your soil. And I would say I had at least 6 inches of soil in there and sprinkled my seeds on the surface. A man. Watered real well almost to the what you would consider to wet in most seeding cases but a real moist moist soil and then. Flipped the top of the jug back down and taped it up with some clear tape I just used. Postage or you mailing tape and set it out in a snowbank leaving the cover off a lot of your little jug and the little plastic bottles at last count he up and set it out in the snow bank and I was told yesterday that it's sticking outside.

I need to go check. It was covered with snow so it'll be interesting to see if anything happens with it. But so what's the day and what is the background on this. Well it's called Winter's seed sowing and it's actually is an old method that was used many years ago I think it's just being rediscovered because I used to do it years ago and then haven't done it for a number of years only. Years ago we didn't use plastic milk jugs which actually gives probably a jump in the season because it acts like a mini greenhouse. We used to just use peat pots and I would add we would actually winter you know a good winter sow them or fall sell them and then cover them over and then of course they would be earlier you'd be able to get plants started earlier because they would warm up a little bit more quickly than than going directly into the soil often times and so both Jan and I are going to be doing a programme on winter seed sowing to the west and garden. I can remember the date but it's an April so pay and part of that is I'm going to we're going to have milk jugs and some seeds and you can actually do that method if you come to the garden club.

Yeah and we may still have snow by then. Nobody will but it it's certainly fun to do so. You know I know before I could get into my greenhouse yesterday I had to shovel two foot of snow away from the doorway so there's still some snow. You know when we're talking about seed starting we're assuming everybody knows like what media to use and we should maybe back up and talk a little bit about I guess we all know that part. But you know maybe we should think about and I don't know what you use Jan but but there's a number of people who have tried so and you know they go and get potting soil and then wonder why that doesn't work and it doesn't work very well of course because it's very mucky and there's no oxygen and that type of thing and so if you if you purchase a seed starting makes you want to make sure that it you know it's either vermiculite possibly perlite or a combination thereof usually mixed together because you want really good drainage and you do not need fertilizer to begin with because. There's going to

be enough food in that seed to get it started. Once your seeds are up of course then then why start fertilization right. I've been disappointed over the last couple years as I've seen what they've been promoting as starting soil with the fertilizer in that yeah there is absolutely no need for fertilizer in your seed starting. It makes it more expensive when you're buying it and when you're using bag after bag. Yeah it's very very well and it can be cheaper and I know I know Jan does this and I'm sure Paul you do this too. Like if you start some of your larger seeds like squash or pumpkins or things I just start I'm in three inch pots or something or whatever you want to use and you don't need the seed starting next year the whole way just put it in the top inch and a half and then put put some better you know growing media when you can use some fertilizer in that or you can add usually what I will do is add some fertilizer liquid fertilizer either fish emulsion or you can use either organic or non-organic you know either one where you are just a

killer. Something like that at the top. You can you know there's some SPAG that some people will use that's the real finely milled and sometimes if you're having problems with damping off or something a little more acidic and it can actually prevent some of the damping off. I do not like and I know people are really touting this right now but I used to use make paper pots out of newspaper. Yeah. And I used to do that project with the kids and it was so much fun but the problem was we had a lot of problems with fungus written as yet because those newspapers would stay wet. Yes and the mold molded and I don't know if it was because we had them too close together but she had to have a fairly close together to retain some moisture. But I had I quit using that method and kids were really disappointed and so was I mean it's a great thing if you think about recycling but it just didn't work that well the other thing about the newspaper things too is that you aren't allowed to use the colored ink in more and more the colored ink is so easy to use it's in very many of the pages of the paper so

that I don't know how much the colored ink does make a difference maybe there are I think there are. Because it made out of soy. Now I don't I don't think it's an issue anymore it used to be years ago. But I don't think it is and I'd like to go back to the comment on the mic you like I always use for mic you light on almost all my plantings except if there is something real fine that absolutely should have no covering at all. Otherwise I put on a reel the uncovering of vermiculite but that should be clarified it's a horticultural from a killer like point not to be insulating. Oh yeah yeah. And it usually specifies that right on the bay. But you know something don't think you can go out and use the leftovers from your building project because that is not something that should be handled. OK that's a good point and think that. So we've talked about starting the seeds but what are some good varieties to actually I mean you talked a little bit about some of the flowers How about vegetables that really need a jump. I mean people traditionally think about tomatoes and

peppers. How do you come back from when you want to put it out. I think that was Jan you've been talking about June 1st to talk about you. Yeah. Well that's makes a lot of sense I mean you can try pushing it but it's so disappointing when they freeze only takes once. And then that's it. You don't get one cent Also if you know we don't all work under optimum conditions. And if you've got it on the window sill in this cabbage is now 10 inches tall and hanging over and you're wonder how you're going to get it in the ground and get it to stand up. I mean that's not fun either and Man Why I I you know do not start too early. Usually those the. The coal crops I will probably start about the. TIM of April. And that timing seems to come out real well. And I actually do between the tenth and the fifteenth So we're pretty much the same on this. Yeah

and usually my my eggplant and peppers I will start anywhere between March 15th and April 1st. Yeah. And you don't want I'm too big you know oftentimes people when they when they want their tomatoes to be flowering right away and me and that's not necessarily that sometimes they will actually sit in the soil and it will actually. But the cold temperatures it will actually be detrimental to their development. And so the smaller they are you know I'm too small but you know I'm too big but they actually will take off better and do it do much better and he'll have more fruit earlier if they're actually smaller sometimes. They don't seem to suffer from the transplant shock that much as a large plant that immediately has to start gathering up nutrients and water. Well and if you want to push push that envelope I know a lot of people are using walls of water. I don't because it's too expensive but I know some people if you've only have two or three plants certainly you can get them out there a little bit earlier than that. But again the soil temperature is the key factor

and I really really encourage people to invest in a soil thermometer because that's key. Yeah. It's not so much the timing so much as that that's so oil temperature and if the air temperature is 65 What is the soil temperature generally. Does that depend. Well that really depends it depends upon how much moisture you have depends upon the exposure to sun as a southern exposure is and is a Northern Exposure it depends upon the type of soil you have is it more of a sandy soil a clay soil. So they're really that's why I say the soil thermometer is really an important. That's my biggest tool. Yeah and I'm really trying to convert people to thinking about checking the soil temperatures. And I think if people are starting to garden for the first time they should really look at their land and see what kind of exposures they'll get up here are season to short and if we can get a southern exposure we're were ahead of our ground is going to our soil is going to warm up so much more quickly.

There aren't very many plants that do well on the north side of the house whether you're talking about a vegetable or. Well there are flowers that do well but there are not many vegetables I do put herbs on the north side but they are also in an area that probably gets at least a half a day of sun. Yeah actually I've had a lot of success with different varieties of lettuce in the middle of summer the north side of the house is crate right that doesn't exactly yeah it's cooler. And if people want to they can also use shade cloth. Oh and if you don't have Shea class you can use a sheet. Yeah you know if you put hoops up and just put it that that can actually extend your season as well. They'll shade them a little bit longer or you can plant them. Oftentimes I will I will plant them where I know it's going to have shade from other other vegetables that are taller that I just can't. Yeah you put your fence up and on the other side you put a roll of lettuce or it's going to cure something else.

Yeah that makes a huge difference actually have discovered the one thing that makes them finally go to seed is actually drought you know not getting enough moisture yes. Yeah we're getting a little bit ahead of ourselves talking about the august. Hard not to do that. Going back to when to start different things. We've talked a little bit about eggplant peppers tomatoes the cool crops the cukes the melons the pumpkins the squash. I start I'm ahead of time but boy don't start I'm too far ahead of time because they really pop. I don't stare at those Tell me I was going to say before the first of May. You don't want finding things Vining before it's out in the garden. Well they don't like to be transplanted Turkey. Well you need to put them in. I mean that's my success and I put them in peat pots and I handle them very carefully and. You have to harden up and the hardening off period is also an important piece for those guys. Well everything but especially those guys they need a little bit longer time. You need to protect them from the wind when you plant them out and be sure when

you use those peat pots that you open up the bottom carefully and you tear down the top because you do not want any part of that peat pots sticking up because it will wick moisture out. Yeah. So that's an important thing to remember the other container I've had success with actually is milk carton so this is the cardboard ones. And then I'll cut three sides on the bottom before I even start. So they're kind of jammed in there. And then when it's ready to plant you just slide that up and the whole thing goes straight into the Gromit and you can doesn't disturb the roots at all. Good point kind of a nice deal. Yeah and you can recycle. Yeah yeah. Or you can go to school and get a bunch of those little ones. Yeah. There you go. Starting my cycle program it's a matter where do you store all these things and you have to clean up and do you do. So cucumber is the kind of thing beginning in May and then boy again that comes down to where are you going to put all this in your house. Because you you know talked about up by the window what kind of light.

Plant light tables they're very good I mean but you have to plan ahead of time. I actually have to plant to plant tables in the house and then I have a cooler area in my shop. And so that actually serves as my transition so if you don't have a greenhouse or if you don't have cold frames you can find in your garage or something you can build another set of plant light lights where you're going to get more temperature variation which really makes a big difference and usually I'll transfer them from the house out to the shop area where they get the extreme colder temperatures of course. I kind of watch as you don't want to totally freeze I don't have any heat out there. Yeah I could put heat out there a wood burner but I don't usually. And then you kind of watch them and they kind of less water is part of the hardening off. And then I take them from there and then they go outside underneath just a tunnel. I do hoops with plastic over the top and then kind of put them outside and not in the sun right away and then start transitioning them so they get a little bit more sun. But

yeah that's it. Don't start more than you can handle. Otherwise you'll be giving away to people. However you want to do that. Well take a quick little musical break we'll come back and we've got some more things to talk about planting We're also going to be talking a little bit about some other spring tasks that are lining up on the on the all of our northern gardening things you're listening to Northern gardening here on Radio We're back in just a moment. More.

More. More. Listening to North Shore gardening here in northern gardening I should say on the north

shore here on North Shore radio I'm your host Paula send it I've got two guests in the studio Diane booth and Jan must bring. We're here to talk with you about getting ready for the garden season in March this spring is just sprung even though we still have piles of snow outside. But we're all already been out there with our gardening gloves on playing in the dirt. And we need to talk a little bit about pruning because those are some of the things that happened really while there's still snow on the ground and different circumstance about when it works out and Diane because it just kind of a bit more of I would be happy to. Yeah I get a lot of questions about pruning and my first question is. Did you plant the wrong size plant in the wrong place. Because if you if you've chosen or or say you've moved into a home and there's a plant there that you only want 3 feet tall and it's growing 6 feet tall you can prune that plant forever and ever and ever and you may as well think about replacing it. So you want to make sure

that you have the right plant in the right place. And I know that's a terrible thing to say for some people because they don't want to get rid of some of those things but in the long run if you think about it you'll be happier with the results. So that's the first thing you think about. The second thing I always try to think about is why why am I going to prune this plant. Is it going to be because you want to keep it smaller because maybe it's going to go into a sidewalk someplace where you're walking. Are you going to do it to get rid of you've got Deadwood maybe or diseased wood that you need to get rid of. And so you need to prune that out or maybe you've got branches that are kind of rubbing against each other and it it sounds funny and it doesn't look good and it's it's not for the plant's health you want to do that or maybe it's becoming to dance. And so you want to prune out some of the branches so that you get a little bit more air circulation coming through so that you can reduce your disease problems. You know there's lots of reasons to do

that sometimes. This time of year I think about pruning apple trees because that's my job this weekend supposedly and. You. You prune your apple trees because you prune them in order for production for fruit production and that's a different type of pruning. And so if you have fruit trees you're going to be pruning so that you will have more fruit and there's several different kinds of cuts when you're pruning one is called a heading cut him just think about that any time you prune something like a terminal shoot of any kind. It's called a heading cut and what that does is there are when you cut that terminal bud it increases the productivity of the lateral buds and lot. If that plant has lateral but it's not some plants don't. But if you go ahead and cut off the terminals you're going to increase the side shoot production. So you always want to be thinking about that is that what I want this plant to do. Yeah. Okay. Then you have the thinning cut. And we talked a

little bit about thinning you know for disease and things. And that's when you go all the way to the base of the plant or to the bottom of a branch and you you cut it off there. And that takes the whole branch out. And if you do a really good job of pruning you really can't tell that you pruned. That's how you know you've done which. Looks hacked you know you don't like that. Well you know you kind of drive down and you see what some people like talking you know you know that that's really not a very good tone and oftentimes trees or or tall shrubs that are topped are plants that were planted in the wrong location to begin with and they would really be better off getting rid of them and starting over with something else. At the same time there's different types of shaping that can be used like with you know green hedges that sort of thing that can be shaped and topped right and that's the first thing you want to you want to prune maybe for appearance. Yeah. And one of the things that I see so often that people

do are hedges and they're pruned the wrong way. What happens is the bases are very narrow and the upper branches go out and like of the form. And when that happens you get no sunlight to the bottom and then people keep wondering well why is it so straggly on the bottom. Yeah. So you really want to reverse that process and think about your hedge growing like a pine tree kind of you know in the in the in an A shape or form so that those lower branches are wider and the top is a little bit. Narrower Yeah it doesn't have to be a dramatic cone shape you know. It can even be just sort of a slightly two inch different Yeah or you know even even fairly squares. Yeah you know it depends upon the look you want. And a lot of trees and shrubs really don't need to be pruned a whole lot. One of the things the rules of thumb and I'm sure Jan does this with her garden is to think about if you're doing shrubs when do those shrubs or vines like clematis or Jan talk about the roses because she takes care of the Rose Garden

but when are they flowering you know are they flowering on spring wood or new wood. In which case if you go ahead and prune your last I look back in late fall or early spring you're going to prune off all those blossoms. So you don't really want to do that so that you want to think about if they're pruning in the spring you want to flowering in the spring. You want to wait until after they've flowered and then you want to do your pruning them before the flower buds form for the next year. Except apples also flower in the spring right in Apples they're a different a different thing. The best thing to do with apples and boy I've learned it because I've done it wrong a number of times but you want to really start when your apples are very small when you first get that your old whip. That's what you want to start with because you really want to train him. You want to train him you know you will if you will for make a heading cut when their You're old at the top because you want to encourage lateral growth to begin with and then you what you're going to do is you're going to let that

grow probably for the first year or so and then you're going to select a scaffolding around a scaffolding of branches around that whip and you're probably going to select maybe three or four the first year and the distance between them. Eventually you want to be. 12 to 18 inches but you may I not start out with that you may pick some that are on the lower part and then wait another foot and then select two or three and let those grow and the other thing you want to do with apple trees is you want to make sure that the angle of the branch is really important. It should be between 40 and 60 degrees. Years ago they taught us all it should be 90 degrees Well what happens when they're 90 degrees you get a lot of water spout growth happening. So anything you can do you know and these nice little trees you know they're not normally always going to have that kind of shape and so then you're going to use spreader sticks are you going to put weights on until the the soft wood becomes ligament in you and you start having the firm wood there and

actually hold that shape then you can remove your spreaders. I don't keep the spreaders on during the wintertime. And then you can go ahead and do that and then the second year you continue to do that based on that scaffolding process. Now what happens if somebody just doesn't do much printing at all what does that do to the crop. Well what it does is it usually reduces. It usually takes longer to crop. For one thing and the second thing it does is it reduces the number of apples you have because you want to get quite a bit of sunlight coming into that tree. And if you don't do any pruning at all you're going to have that inside of that tree shaded and so you'll have some fruit on the outside but where those fruit Spurs are on the inside or interior that tree where you would normally be getting a lot of fruit you're going to get less fruit. So that's that's an important thing. And if you have a an apple tree that is wilder that you've inherited then you have kind of a mess.

So you know let's say you get busy for three to five years and you don't get out there well. Yeah it is interesting. The other thing I want to touch on a little bit is when you're promoting is is the branch collar if you look and you follow that branch you'll see like a little raised area around that branch you did not want to cut into that branch collar you want to create right where it is. And if you have a. A bigger branch let's say you've left it go and you've got like a three inch branch that you know needs to come off. What you want to do is you want to do an undercut about 12 inches out and then do a cut over the top and take it take off that branch like 12 inches or so are 18 inches from where it comes off of that. That main trunk and that's to prevent it from breaking new and creating more damage. And then you get to the plant and then you'll go back to where that branch collar is located and cut it off flush. We don't recommend putting anything over to cover those cats except if you're doing well actually if we don't have very many oaks here we have a few.

But if you are cutting on oaks you don't want to do any pruning beyond June because oak wilt as a problem and as we get warmer we may see some of that I have Oaks on my property so I kind of watch out for the. So you don't have to put anything on there you cut. And yet you know spring comes a sap is coming a sap going to be coming out that cup. Well usually we can talk a little bit about the trees that are susceptible which are these are the maples and birches. It isn't going to hurt to go ahead and cut those a lot of times it's better to wait until those two genus genus the Acer and the tool of the birches and the maples until they've actually put out all their leaves when their leaves are pretty much fully out that's taken all that energy and SAP and it's and it's it's utilize that to put out those leaf so then if you do your pruning at that time you're not going to have as much as much of the weeping. Yeah. Speak is what you're going to have if you do it now but actually everything that I have read says that it does not really hurt the tree to do it.

Also when it's dormant. I do there was a circumstance with one tree a word had some snow damage and actually bent a branch and cracked it open and so it was really needed to be trimmed off and cut off and God thought that tree was going to bleed to death. Just you know really there's so much staff was just rushing out of that I think there are some other issues going on with that particular tree but the next year it was dead. I mean really. So their promise to be in some other things I want to. But at the same time that small cut and I don't think it was more than a three inch branch. Slightly smaller. I was amazed at how much came out of there like a fountain. What time and what time of year. Well it was again it was spring it was like this you know the snow is melting it pulls it off and breaks it and then the sap is rising and comes washing right out and well that's then how I mean it certainly is the maple syrup this is the time that I hung a bucket. Yeah I think what Diane has said about the apple tree could just be repeated for all the other fruit trees cherries too should be

pruned early. And if you do your pruning when you're your new little whip like you said it just right the first couple years there isn't nearly as much pruning to do after that. If you get them right away and I must say that most of the nurseries really do come with a good set of instructions as to how to prune your fruit trees when you're putting them in the ground. Be sure and look at that. Don't just try and remember a time when a fish take this or that but take a look at the directions that come from the nurseries because they have valuable information. I know in one group of trees that I got this it don't do any pruning we've already taken care of this for you. My Well in that's quite often true if let's say for example if you you do purchase an apple tree that is maybe three years old or four years old and you can actually look at it and check check for those things that I talked about. Look for those nice scaffolding branches checked to see there at 40 to 60 degrees and oftentimes this has

been done in the nursery for you to begin with. So then all you have to do is continue to make that happen. Yeah so that's important. So how about when you get. Unfortunately this happens a lot appear when deer are gone in and helped prune it for you. Oh and then you have to fix it yes. Well I think again you look at OK what if you have a bear. I mean bears are notorious for also being in Iraq just for apples and I know I've had to go back and take a look at that damage. Any time you have dead wood you can take it out at any time and oftentimes you know you can check for dead wood. You can go ahead and peel that bark back a little bit and if you see green at all you know that that's where you have live would if you if you don't and obviously if you snap it and it's nasty it's dad you know you go ahead and do that. So any time that happens you have to go in and do some remedial pruning. If it's if it's something that can wait. I will let it wait.

But if you have a branch that's waving in the breeze Obviously you have to go and take. Yeah yeah good good advice. How about any other we talk a little bit about some of the hedges kind of thing is that does that matter when the cars on time just see people cutting those in even the middle of summer. Does it make a difference. I don't think that really makes a difference as far as most of your shrubbery is concerned. I was thinking about some some of the shrub roses and things like that. I would prune those out early when I can still see the lines of the shrubbery before they get all leafed out. That's one reason. But on some of the old roses I just take out one third of the wood each year to rejuvenate it get rid of the old stuff and get let the new. It stems come up and I really think that it is important to get the old wood out of there also. Well and that's that's renewable promenading and I am for roses. That's important for the

lilacs that can be important because you have flowering on new wood right usually And so by renewal pruning you keep the size to a certain size and you keep more flowering going on. And if you have an older shrub like a rose or a lilac that has not been touched for a while you can do that over a period of three years and kind of pretty much rejuvenate that rose or that lilac. The other thing I would add to what Jan said was I'm sure Jan does this once you tipped the roses up you can look for any damage anything that's Dad. Oh yes looking to the hybrid teas. That's kind of a whole different pruning. You really want to prune the heighth. You want to see what's what's living like you said look at that tissue there and see what's green what's going to be producing sending out new shoots. And over the winter some always get broken you want to prune that out and. You have to do some selective pruning I would say when it comes to the hybrid tea roses

where as with the shrub the old roses I would just take out the entire stem out because they are coming from the rot and not from a graft. Yeah yeah that's a good point. How about pruning innocence. If you're doing some cleanup as the snow is disappearing and you've got your perennial zoo maybe you chose to leave some of the tops on because that birds like to sit on it. Any recommendations. I don't what I usually do is I just kind of look I kind of look just see where those green shoots are coming up in a soon as I start saying I'll start cutting out some of the some of the dead stuff whether it's a perennial or whether it's. Whether it's a shrub of some kind I will often do that. I also look sometimes you'll have shrubs or you may have plants where you have you can see a definite line where the snow was nothing. We had so much snow we probably won't see that but sometimes where the snow the level of the snow is the branches above may be dead. If it's kind of a in-between plant where it's semi hardy here and what's underneath will be

live and so then you need to go ahead and cut those off. Sometimes when I'm cleaning as I see those new little shoots coming up and I can see that the others are dead I'll just cut those right off at the base. Yeah in the spring. And how about raspberries. You know a lot of times you really should go in the fall and pull out the old raspberry canes and both of course have done that right. Oh yeah part right. Actually I didn't mind the run out of time before winter sets in. Here again we have to talk about what kind of raspberries you have. That's true. And Diane why don't you make sure that you know you have June bearing raspberries and you have fall during raspberries for the most part and usually for the June bearing ones. And you know you can go ahead and if there you have one year old and usually two year old and the two year old canes that have borne fruit are usually dead by. Oh August September. And so that's really a good time to go in and actually prune those out because you can see which ones are

pretty much directly. And the other thing is if any of the detritus of the litter that falls down you know oftentimes they can carry disease and so to get rid of that and then put down maybe some straw or something for overwintering will certainly kind of help get them off to a good start in the spring. I like doing it in the fall because in the spring you're so busy doing so many other things that that's an important thing. So that's kind of what I do. Exactly that's what I do too. It's so much easier I think to get it cleaned up in the fall. And like you said you can see those canes that are the dead ones and of course if you're dealing with a fall there and you just cut them to the ground in the spring. Yeah that's it. Or you could do it late fall or late fall and of course then too you don't have a lot of work in the spring. Yeah. Yeah last fall I actually use some of the canes that I was pulling out as mulch for some of the other plants that I needed to protect. Well might as well keep using these otherwise I have to

haul it from town I can just throw it off in the ditch I can't do that anymore. My neighbor would complain and you don't want to pull all that mulch off of all the perennials too early because we're going to get the freezing and thawing and that is the time of the year when you lose things. Yeah I I don't rush into the ad either although by the end of April I'm very anxious and I'm pretty well getting things cleaned up. But yeah I'm usually digging down to see all the new things new coming out. Yeah well nothing at all or if it's going to be called I'll have to cover it back up again. Don't throw those branches too far away because you might want to try the pine branches and just thrown back on if it looks like it's going to be really cold. Yeah well I'm fluffing up too if used Fermat leave sometimes those get matted down nice to get a little air in there so it's not just smashed and in the fall if you do use leaves or if you do used to put some

balsam boughs or something over the top will also shed that snow a little bit and help in the spring then you have to kind of dig down through to see what's happening when you need to remove them but that prevents that matting down it can kill crowns and things we don't talk anything about. Shrubs that you grow mainly for foliage but I was thinking about that because usually the dogwoods get pruned by the deer and then in the spring it's kind of a good time to cut back a lot of the woody shrubs that you grow for foliage. Yeah just go ahead and take out dogwoods It's nice to do kind of like the renewal printing thing where you take out some of those older stems because otherwise the color isn't very nice. And then to cut them back to yeah they spring right up from the ground. When you do that. Yeah they really do. Those are some that are easy to grow and I've known some of the shrubbery that has been used around a home very often just gets so out of bounds. Not only because it

hasn't been pruned but just because it's old and there does come a time when you do have to. Pull it out in put in you because there's just nothing you can do with it. At that point and it isn't attractive it doesn't enhance your home or anything else. So I do think you after about 15 to 20 years you need to look at it and say this needs replacement. Well and we haven't talked much about pruning evergreens either which is a lot of the plants that we have around our foundation and so that something we should maybe touch a little bit on. If this is a time of year where I get questions about can I go ahead and print my spruce can I go ahead and prune my pine trees can I go ahead and prune my Juniper's or. Yeah or what arborvitae that I have. Yeah. And that kind of goes back to that same thing we started talking about too is making sure you have the right points at the right place and if you don't know how big that plant is going to get. Oftentimes it isn't 20 years Jan. It's five or five years when it could be that out grows that space.

So prior planning if you don't know how big that plant is going to be and even sometimes if they're in a warmer environmentally good microclimate up next to the house they get bigger than what it says on the sticker. What you could not buy at. Well it's difficult to associate a little tiny seedling or a little tiny thing with this big 60 foot tree that it's going to become. Which would be a totally inappropriate thing to steer. Oh yes but a six foot might be more appropriate so knowing what that is is pretty important. When this gets back to knowing whether or not that that Evergreen has lateral bugs or not and this is an important thing because spruces and firs have lateral buds so if you cut that terminal. But if you are going to get side growth OK yeah. Whereas if you cut that whole terminal bud off a red pine a white pine a jack pine and you go pine any of those you cut that up. You're going to end up with just a dead stub because you're not going to have any growth on those side

shoots. So for pines you don't want to prune those except when you have new growth and the candles are out and you don't you don't prune them more than halfway usually. Yeah that will that will compact that growth a little bit and also you want to think about. It from Hugo as you know they will get more compact growth and smaller growth but for a red pine or a white pine you kind of want to have that natural look so you may not want to cut them too much me just want to let them let them go. Yeah that's true. So well we get rest turnaround time. A couple we've got. Five minutes bus four minutes. Maybe I could put a plug in for the April meeting of the glamour a garden club. Yes we will have on the 13th of April program on pruning and it's going to be a hands on so if you want to bring your hand pruners along. Joan and Howard Abramson are going to present the program and you'll be able to

get a real close look at those and they'll be talking about different types of trees and shrubs and how each has to be pruned. So we invite anyone from the community to come to it it's 10 o'clock in the morning at the community center. April 13th correct. That's great. And other resources to a Cook County Extension Diane. Oh yeah sure you're welcome to come in anytime. We got lots of resources on on pruning on growing vegetables pretty much whatever you're interested in. Yeah some good resources are interested in some of those winter seed sowing there's that event that's going to be happening in the west and which you can remember one day remember the date but let me call it 7 3 0 1 5 erect. So 15 cell. Well that about wraps it up for northern gardening I'd definitely really want to think. Diane booth from the Cook County Extension and Jen must bring a master gardener grower up here in the north. Thanks so very much for joining us here on Northern gardening. Thank you thank. You.

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