Northern Gardening; Terry Yockey

Support of Northern gardening comes from Buck's hardware offering a full selection of gardening supplies or patients in winter and perennials and support also comes from an incorporated contractors working to fill landscaping needs in Northland celebrating 60 years of serving. Cook County 3 8 7 1 6 4 4. I'm your host on Northern policy. Glad to be with you for this live broadcast of Northern gardening on this Friday July 18th. And this is rebroadcast the following Thursday. You're listening in and you've got a guard question you're certainly willing to call but want to leave a message. Folks on Friday can call it 3 8 7 10 7 or 1 800 4 7 3 9 8 4. And joining us today is teriyaki. She is a writer for the Northern gardener magazine. She's got her own column in that and she's also University of Minnesota MasterCard or has been for 11 years. And Terry is here to talk with us about deer and critter control Thanks Terry so much for joining us. Terry are you there.

I can't even hear song. Well we'll have to figure out what's going on with our connection with Terry and see how come I'm not picking her up on the. On the line. So we'll be back in just a second. Put in a little tune here this is actually what the kids will be talking about cats as well so we'll listen to that while we try to figure out what's going on to get Terry on the line. OK. Are you there. You know a stick and she's she's not there. Terry can you hear me.

Now. We still haven't talk. Trouble with a try one more time there. Roger is pushing buttons here. How about that. And we're just not here and we're not here Terry. Well we'll keep trying. Terry can hear you.

Can you hear me. There we see you figured it out. It was it was just one button that we needed to push. I knew it was and we get it right. Well it's up to the big long introduction teriyaki. I'll do it again here as in anybody who's just tuned in and we didn't catch that but she's a master gardener has been for 11 years he's a writer for northern gardener magazine has her own column and she's here to talk with us about deer and critter control. And I'm so very serious problem for most gardeners it is that it's one of the most common things how do I keep the deer out of the garden. So how do you do it. How do you do it. Yeah well I think the best answer is to build a fence. And I know most people they think it's very costly and they also don't want to obscure the view of their garden you know by putting up a solid bent. But that is the best way and there are fans that they're sensing that you can put up that isn't really as costly and you can save there and fact we just put up.

We just started our first community garden here in Red Wing and of course that used to be a cornfield and lots of deer here in Red Wing. So we knew that if we couldn't just put a community garden out in the country and not expect the deer to eat everything right to the ground. Oh the first thing we had to do was to put up a fence. And of course we couldn't afford to. You know this was a community effort here in Florida put up an expensive fence for that big an area so what we did is we just found somebody that would donate a metal pole and then we bought the Black deer netting and put it between it and it really it did not cost that much and we have not had one deer we did we did take pieces of cloth and tied them and put them to the mash so the deer could see it at night. And we have not had one deer go through it. How high is it. It's about 10 feet. And what do you have to get tall poles and we did what we did is we got a pounder and then

pounded the poles and to the ground about four feet. Actually the Poles were probably about 12 feet bound and that's one of the advantages you have done by Red Wing is that if we tried to pound of you have a lot of sail we have a little bit of rock and we have a lot of hail here. Have you ever been to Radway we're right on the Mississippi River. But it's a really kind of funny because where I live it's just like a beach. When I first moved here it was this almost. The kids loved it it was like a big sandbox and then where I moved from it was just as you described it was about a jail and if I wanted to make a hole for a shrub or something I literally had to get a pick axe out. But that's kind of why we picked the cornfield. We figured that the farmer had done all the early work for us you know it would be pretty good. Yeah well so folks have to figure out some way of stringing up that and describe what that stuff is like and what it's made out of more you can get it. You can get different kinds there is the bird netting which is not is that the one

week as it has square and flat black plastic mess and it is fairly dry I mean the bird nest that you see that you throw over trees so that they don't take the earth it can break easily. The heavy duty dare mess is there's a lot stronger and has maybe 1 inch square but it's still you can see right through it which is really nice and the dark color makes it almost camouflaged. So when you're looking without the strip of the seat that we put all over would make it a little more obvious but in the home you know the yard if you do the black the black to kind of melt right into your landscape so it isn't as it doesn't obscure as much as some of the fencing does and like I said it's pretty inexpensive as well in the scheme of things when you know most fencing has gotten really expensive because of this because materialism been like this. Yeah well it sounds as if you're putting in chain link or heavy wire or

whatever that's a big process tightening it yeah and saying like you have to go two layers you know really high and so it really does is very expensive if he did like. What do you recommend as a height minimum. Well you know deer can jump from stand like eight feet straight up. So you really need to go at least eight feet in front of them and that's one thing you do have to check if you're in a neighborhood to see what kind of zoning they have because sometimes they will but but then that's the nice thing about the mesh. Sometimes they don't consider that a solid fence. But you can go higher than you could in a regular residential area with them. Yeah. Or other fencing material is the mesh strong enough to grow some binding plants or something up to that play that you don't care for. You know it definitely is. But he has a very small hole so it has to be something that really could twine you know if I hadn't already but you could also you

know during you tie it up it but yes definitely done enough and I think it should last for a lot a lot of the reasons I just don't think it degrades that much is meant to be out there for a long time. So what are your recommendations for folks that just for some reason their plot of land they've got their governess set up so that they just cannot fence it in and that can happen I guess. Then what. Then what and then you're going to cast to go to other you know using other techniques like Mel or there are a lot of commercial things out there one thing we. I'm a master gardener as master gardeners were on a list serve where we we are you know just kind of talk to each other about They've been there of course comes up a lot and a lot of master gardeners have had really good luck and with the old Irish Spring technique where you take Irish things though and I have three Irish Spring bats the one that works the best for deer.

They really don't like it because it does have a really strong smell. And some people put on wire coat hangers that they have and did the wire and then they stick it in the ground especially in a hot air like their number one favorite. But that's really worth half because you can stick it between the hot specs and they go down to eat it and I don't know if it is I think it's both things the Arab Spring and the fact that they poke themselves when they get into that hangar. But they have really you know you put them through all your plans and the master gardeners have had really good luck with that one. So that's a really inexpensive way to do it and you can get it right at your grocery store or you can even use a bamboo pole if you want to put their spring on top of that. One that I was a commercial project and a blood meal does work in the larder and I the larger night which is from Milwaukee and is made from. Well I think you all know Miller tonight's made from that works really well the problem being that as soon as you have rain it dilutes its power so you have to go back out and put it back on your plants and when I use

Miller tonight you know it started raining early in the evening and then by the morning they would have already gone out and eaten. You know if it rained all night you do have a problem there but the nice thing about Miller night is it's a good fertilizer as well. OK it's an organic fertilizer somewhat similar going I don't know I don't how well Archy's. Sure yeah that's what it is that they sterilize it and they pay and they test it constantly for heavy metals and everything and even a couple years ago they okayed it for vegetable gardens. What's that silo Gadsby and a vegetable garden thing I think I've read a lot of people down here use it on their lawns and yeah and we have a person that made a special roast mix for shrub roses and he uses M.R. unite and bat and and the Rose Society in the Twin Cities that's it's called Bob mix I don't know if they have an engram or a bell but it

has a larger night and I tell you my roses have never looked as good and the bunnies The nice thing about most of these deer repellents is they also work for bunnies. I have I have a 9 foot fence that's electrified so I do not have a problem with deer and that's the other thing you know another way of people can put up with regular fans can't use a black mask. I used to have a friend that was a vegetable Garner and he just put up like a 2 foot electric wire around his bed Civil Guard and that it was a low voltage wire. You can get it. At most of the hardware stores or garden centers and that kept the deer out as well. But I decided if I was going to be a gardener here because I happened to move right into the path where the deer came right off of another hill and went right through my yard and then right up the other half of the first year out here ate everything I planted rates of a drought that sort of amassing there I knew I had to do something.

So I built and I spent and it is just like a regular fence except the wires are electrified and you can really see through it it is not you know really obtrusive it's not it doesn't you know look like a big fortress or anything. Yeah and actually some of those electric wires you can get them hooked up as a solar connection as well it believe me as you can. Yeah. Yes you can switch and not running off the back but as I was saying it's like kind of got off on the other thing. Another one that I was really high on was plant which is a product that's made out of Cork blood and it really worked well for Deere for by any but a lot of people have had problems with the big if they have animals the dogs Oh they like to say well they like it. Yeah. So when you spray it and the role in it. And it really does look like blood. Susan I you know I don't have bad breath and after a couple years I just couldn't see the

grizzly bear and the bottle. There's even been people if it gets too hot it will blow. Oh that's disgusting you have to use it right away or it really goes bad quickly. But but many people get it you do get really good results. The deer do stay away friends go to the bunnies and it stays on for two three months which is really nice. Well so long as you don't have a dog or a neighbor dogs lie you don't have a dog and you can stomach the whole park thing but it's a kind of a you know here you've got this beautiful garden whether it's vegetables or flowers and then you're putting this disgusting stuff on it so that you can't bear to go near it. But that's it and I'm kind of a fragrant gardener as well and that brings us to the third product that a lot of people have had good luck with and that's the product. There's several lines liquid and then they're made from crude tress eggs which is just a fancy way of saying rat man

and they also I know the Liquid Fence is the one that I have I use I still use this plan and it has garlic in it and just as you said you know you have to press and when you go after you spray it really does smell a little strange but it does go away quite quickly. And the one thing about the commercial product you can make your own homemade mix when that is taking eggs now and the end of the rest theory here. So that's really quite easy. Take two tablespoons of hot pepper liquid dystopian about a teaspoon liquid or a tablespoon liquid dish soap some garlic powder and a gallon of water and mix that all together and that's not a strong smelling is a lot of people you also throw in some raw eggs and mix it all up and then just let it sit for a little while and then spray it and it works. The problem being that the commercial products have latex and others that comes in there so they stay for the right on time whereas when you do it homemade it's the same thing as of Mullard a night as soon as it rains.

You need to go back out there right up to the one of your sprayer you're using can get kind of clogged up. Yeah that is a really difficult thing unless you really drain it. They do tend to and you really do have to rent them out because both eggs do their job and that for a thing that's the other thing about the plants that I had a problem with is that I used the dried mix and last and I see really mixed it up well it does really soak up your sprayer quite quickly. Yeah and then you're really messing with it. Yeah we keep the deer out of the garden. Well and sometimes you know it's curious some things will work in some places and not others have you discovered that. Oh from one neighborhood or even one house to the next. It's amazing what matzoh thing is my web site which is a northern gardening back. It's a nice coincidence. Just like you guys but I have a

huge list of plants. They're not very Pella but deer resistant and the disclaimer is what works for one person that they never touch in their yard. The person next door they'll be eating right to the ground. I just don't understand it. I had one woman tell me that the deer ate a rhubarb right to the ground rhubarb is extremely poisonous. That's called I guess they were just hungry a massive bang. A deer really will eat almost anything if they're hungry enough. That's really true and I've also heard too that it depends on what their route is because you mention moving to a place where you stop where the deer trail was so it's inevitable they're going to eat that. But if that's a good point with the fences. True if you have deer and you put up a fence you might still have a problem for a while because is it. They know that there's something in there that they've already been eating before they will jump your fence or they will even crash through your fence and I have a friend who is an artist could build these wonderful day wrought iron gates and

they actually they can bend you but you can see through it and they'll actually crashed right through those gates and they've done it two or three times. Then she put them up. But yeah that is a problem. So let's say no this thing has that city and once they know if however you put up a solid fence you know right away and they don't then you shouldn't have any problem you can actually get away with a lower fence. But some people do even to help the fences they don't like it there. Get it. So if you do anything that kind of disturbs their if they can't you know if it doesn't fit in normality then it works better to help the fans or you know you just do a lot. Anything different put plants in front of it so that they can't they don't know if they can jump over or what they're jumping into that helps a lot as well. Yeah and you mentioned like the coat hangers and things like that especially with the soap on they don't like stuff poking so sharp stone I'll stick the prize to them when they go down to the

plant you know and a lot of people even use fish line if they have trees around their property. Yeah and the fish line up here where I live a lot of people use this land they just string it between them and when they bump into it at night they they don't know what that is and so it's scare them and they don't go for it. That's amazing. Yeah I've heard actually if fish line working over the top of chicken coops to keep out holes and they really. Yeah the light reflects off of it and in the viewer up there not sure what it is or where their stuff and I've got I've had success with that personally. Really. I don't have chickens anymore I wish we had hours to scare away down here. Hope and banking on that. I don't know if many of your listeners have been down to read rain but now you know that people are staying closer to home. I just want to plug the Red Wing as a as a great place to come for a weekend and we have a Web site that we put together a few years ago called Mississippi Valley partners 100 miles of friends and for gardeners is great because and you can go on the Web site Web site

if you just do a google search or miss that the valley partners will find it or if they have missed they'd be dashed river that org and then the hundred miles and gardens they have a brochure that you can download and either gardens that you don't have to and you don't have to pay to get into their just little garden along the Mississippi and they go around. While all around the river and then you end up at Red Wing and what a great great weekend for for gardeners and very inexpensive. And that's coming up this weekend. You know that you can do it any time you want that's the beauty of it. What is the web download the brochure on our website with their website and one of the gardens that is mine and mine isn't open. You do have to call ahead but I love having people visit my garden to give me a call and tell me what's going on with the website again. Miss that the gas river dot org.

OK well that would be fun to look up. Yeah it's a beautiful area and it's nice to see a deadly spiritual area. I welcome you all to come and visit you know. We're speaking with Terry. She's located in Red Wing Minnesota and she's a University of Minnesota Gardner writes for northern gardening gardener magazine. She's got a column on that and she's talking with us about during critter control we were talking about some of the things that keep the deer out and what about things that haying and that kind of stuff if you had new success with that I could hear you get those CDs in the mail and hang them up and does that work at all. I think that's worth a shot like that I think. And I think anything that surprised them another saying that along the same lines another product that you can get that master gardeners have had good luck with is the scarecrow or similar product. And no it's not a regular scarecrow it's a if you attach it to your sprinkler and it has an electric eye and when you break the path or whatever it it's shoots

at whatever broke it right away and they really do not like to be sat with water and you know they'll If you have a smaller area and and you can can troll where they come in that's a really great way to do it and be they even recommend them for places like California that have water shortages because they don't use much water they only use a couple cups of water per person shooting and that works for all critters so if you have raccoon problems or by any problems even you just you do have to readjust the lighting height weight with the critters that you're having the problem with but that bet has been very effective. Now as you mentioned scarecrow I was having trouble in the late fall this deer coming through. Out of desperation I just threw a few sticks in the ground branches and put a black plastic bag over the top of it and clipped it down to the base of the bag and the bag would move around in the wind and look like somebody in a corset make terrible sounds to make it rattle the plasticky sound

and they were scared that they didn't come into the garden that worked. It was perfect. Well you know I was amazed at how well it's ugly but I actually say whatever work you gotta go for it. But I think if they were you know I don't know if they would eventually get used to I think it's because it was continually moving and being odd so it looked like a person. In fact you know you can't get out of the corner of your eye to make you jump because you think there's somebody in the garden. Let's go and that's a very good point. Deer do get you a lot of thing. Oh it's really good. Just kind of keep throwing stuff out and keep them keep them guessing. If they don't get used to it. So if you've got a dog does that help. I've heard things about you know. What There's a dog. Some people it works very well. If you have get it dear. But just like everything else there around here the deer are fearless I swear that they really aren't scared of a whole lot and the

dog will go right right by. I haven't my neighbor has a dog and I watch him walk right between my fam and the Dog House and the dog is going crazy and they could care less so they know what the length of the dog's chain is pretty much. Basically I said I don't like to give them that much credit but apparently they've gone by there enough times without getting any. You know every anything happened that they know that that dog's not going to do anything. Certainly cars the cars stay on the road they know the cars don't go driving off into the woods so it's no big deal yeah. So they said they're in graves right next to the road I just bought two deer you know in my neighborhood. Yesterday I went right by and I stood there looked at me as I went by and never batted an eye. Oh my goodness. Wow. Well if you've got an issue about deer if you've got a success story about keeping deer out of the garden give us a ring here at the Studio 3 8 7 10 70 or 1 800 4 7 3 9 8 4 7 we'd be glad to hear about it. In particular if you've. Some

plants that hit the deer totally avoid That's always nice to hear about. But like you saying I tell you mentioning that eating right the rhubarb all the way down I you know I have had situations where it's been funny to watch the deer eat a young fahn in the garden in the tulips and just come up and they were all bright colors and I suspect that they looked in on time. I realize I'm anthropomorphizing this but that the deer was acting as though they were lollipops in testing the different colors. Just you know talk of a flower. I wonder what this is a lot of Curie yet or I'm sure and I do love a good crew. And I didn't know that you know you you know if you plant daffodils they won't that's true daffodils are poisonous or if they do eat I'm going to have a really bad time of it. Yeah you know the tulips I had hardly any of them and it was just such a treat and so funny to watch the expressions just. Boy do I stop planting tulips because at no point that's ridiculous no. I've seen no

roses down to it how they can handle those thorns in their mouth it's just that is one thing. There are a lot of mostly try and plant plants that have thorns they don't like. Well even purple coneflowers have the spiky cone heads. Yeah I don't really like that usually And I'm going to keep putting McAbee at end so that I don't care Terry. They you know they always be. Because that's exactly the way it is. But there is one plant that I have never had one person ever say that they beat and that's ornamental grasses. Really. Yeah thanks never you are in a mental grasp of where the so funny how you don't have a you know have a listener call up and say they always got aggressive but you know I have done programs all over and I've never had one person has told me yet that they've eaten their ornamental grasses and that is really the only thing they don't like they don't laugh. They don't like plants that have strong fragrances like

they don't like Cat men usually or they don't love essence fades usually but you know even that down they're blonde. Yeah a little bit. How funny. Well we're going to take a quick little musical break here in the we'll be back with some other critters that we want to keep by the hour like we talked a little bit briefly about rabbits talk about chipmunks squirrels cats the voles moles crows and bears all the other critters at least to touch on it anyway. And are you listening to Northern gardening here on WTOP. I'm your host Paula send it Terri Iraqis joining us and supporting our then gardening comes from superior lumber and sports a full sized lumber and hardware store located one mile east of Grand Moray superior lumber and sports locally owned and offers a wide range of garden supplies patio furniture outdoor cooking grills more information available at 3 7 1 7 7 1 in support also comes from Evergreen originals greenhouse located at 16 Skye Portland and grand Marie evergreen originals greenhouse specializes in annuals and perennials for a northern climate. It also offers veggies

herbs a wide selection of hanging baskets tubs and planters information available in person or at 3 8 7 2 8 6 2. We'll be back with you with Northern gardening talking a little bit about critters in the garden. Oh. The music from Colin around here a northern gardening I mean host Paula send it along with

teriyaki joining us on the phone she's a master gardener has been for 11 years she writes for the Northern gardener magazine. She's got her own column. And we're glad to have her join us from on the phone from Red Wing Minnesota. We're talking about critter control and Terri while we were having a little musical break we had a couple calls. People would like to know how to deal with woodchucks. You got some great suggestions about that. Well I did have a woodchuck in my other gardener garden and I did you have a heart trap and recruit located that would check in there. They're really pretty easy to catch if you want to go the trapping route. But once they get in the trap they're very cranky. What do your what do you use to lure them in. What did you put in the trap. He's there Terry. Sorry. It's like I've just lost you there. We're talking about traps and the Minnesota Department of Natural Resources has a great

resource Web page at DNR dot state DOT DOT us. And they talk you have a whole thing about taking a nuisance animals first trapping it and their recommendation about what to do with that trap is that it should be relocated 10 to 15 miles from where it was captured in order ensure that it doesn't return. I'm reading from the what they have on their web page here. However it's also necessary to obtain permission from the governing agency or land owner before releasing the animal. So you have to consult local laws about applying controls. It sounds like I've lost Terri and she's hearing me or not. Well we'll have to check back in again her going to vote on a little bit more music and see if we can get her get her back again in just a second here figure out what our technical problems are today. Just a minute. Back again so we were talking about which X Terry and

advice and talked about live trapping in that. I think that's the best way to go yeah. And so what did you use for bait. Vegetable vegetable that the Woodchuck had been eating in my vegetable garden. So I mean if they're in your garden and they they're eating something that's a bird that is a fairly good indication that that's what they like. And you're using like a have a heart trap so I used to have a heart. Yes I did. I they're really easy to use. And you know take them out. Well you know more about it we're in a lot of our. But I want to I just think I'm out in the country and let my words Check out there. I don't want to inflict it on my neighbor. Right. Well I was just mentioning and I don't know if you caught that while we were having our technical problems but the Minnesota Department resources has a great web page the DNR state in us and they have a section on living with wildlife and about taking a

nuisance animal. And one of the things that they mention is that well first off the animals included under the provision there's a some animals nuisance animals or wildlife that are not domesticated animals obviously so you're not allowed to live trap dogs or cats and sell some of the animals can be taken with a license or permit if they're causing damage taken without a license. And so those animals include squirrels rabbits even even mink. You know record sounds point even mentions Lynx bobcat and Fox akimbo I know you know it's really very very odd. But at any rate even Beaver muskrat a possum that's odd unprotected birds include the English sparrow Starling and Comet pigeons so all those can be taken by the land owner manager occupant I would I would call the DNR if I was you know you were having a problem with a bigger animal for instance a bear and then I'd see that that's not actually on this list but I

think it's a good idea column if you're really having a problem with a bigger animal but a lot of those you can live trap close and then you need to relocate them and that needs to be 10 to 15 miles from where it was captured according to the DNR order ensure it doesn't come back. Now I know that that's certainly true for squirrels I'm not sure whether it needs to be that full amount for chipmunks and I have no idea but I think you definitely need to get them quite away right away as they are very smart and they will make their way back. They've got a big territory I think that's really the big thing is to think about is that what their territory is however where you're releasing it and up here it's a little bit. You know we've got a lot of woodland and just like you're saying there's a lot of farming area too and you've got a lot of woodland in the redwing area but technically you should contact either the owner of the land. If it's somebody's property or even. Even the department of a resource and say hey I have a problem a chipmunk I'm going to release him down here is our new

problem and I'd be surprised if they were would complain about that but it's maybe worth checking in with a DNR in. I've got our local DNR number here for if I have that on here. Oh yeah here it is. It's 3:08 730 34 that's the DNR Wildlife Division here locally but their website has got a lot and they also have an 800 number. It's 8 8 8 in DNR. I guess I'd have to look look up what that is I hate it when they put those there really struggle with that. So those are the things as far as doing the live trap and it works. The one thing that I'd heard about the chipmunks and other maybe the other animals as well for live trapping as you get closer in towards fall. That's actually kind of a death sentence for them because they have stashed food you know to get through the winter. And if you move them into a new spot they have to start all over and they won't make it through the winter. So it seems convenient Yeah you just get rid of it and then you're out of sight out of mind but you've actually killed it

in a not a very pleasant way. So I think you need to do it earlier in the season. They have to travel a way to avoid it. I mean they could start again on a new dash. You know probably stop in the middle of the farmer. I guess it depends on what they're eating or else your use you are with. Well and I. There is a story that I had heard that someone here in rendering had had a really bad problem with chipmunk. They had tunneled all over the place. They ignore it because they're cute. They are very very cute. But one morning they went to step out on their porch to get the newspaper and this chipmunk said under mine there's cement porch and the whole thing caved into a big hole. Wow yeah wow. They have that many tunnels under the porch. It is something to definitely be aware of. You know they can definitely be a problem and that's dangerous actually.

Well to thinking about what else are they eating if you're feeding birds and they're eating the bird seed and you've also got it you know a garden well then you're going to have some problems with chipmunks and squirrels and other animals too. So another caller had asked about the Irish Spring soap they wonder if that worked for rabbits. I have never heard it used but I will e went out it a strong smelling smelling as it is. I would think that that bunnies wouldn't like it because they really do follow the same lines as the deer they don't like the stronger smells they don't like the stronger taste they leave my herb garden and that's when they I do have a terrible problem with the bunnies and you know they like clematis to it right at the bottom and kill the vines. But and so I use a lot of. That chicken wire but the other wire around the bottom around the rabbit wire. Yeah specially in the winter I pretty much all of my shrubbery I have to take the wire and put it around it to control the bunnies

during the summer though it really helps to use liquid fences or are those products with bags and they really they stick for a long time and they really seem to help and they even have stayed away from the rows of which are a big favorite of theirs. They usually eat them right down to the ground. They must be very sweet. But yeah so I really recommend. Well and the plants are good. The pig blood product also works really well if you if you want to use that. The bunnies really do stay away from anything that has that on it. We've had good success using a combination of the spray that witness up or getting Liquid Fence. But more importantly I discovered that if I have a little white clover in the lawn that they love that. And so they'll happily sit in the lawn and just eat to their heart's content and they don't actually hide in the garden. In 1980 saying Oh that's wonderful. Well that's a good advertisement for keeping clover an airline that's right and I used to do the fav thing. But my husband you

know is one of a lot of people but you know I mean. Angle and I try to tell of an angle and they actually add clover to their lawn because it fixes the nitrogen in the turf. Sure it's good for you not only does it attract the bunnies away from your garden but as for nitrogen of well yeah I'm going to have to try talking to my husband and I like it too because it's in our rough gravelly soil that we have a lot of times for our you know lawn area that it will actually survive in that. And like you saying it helps provide an environment that the other grasses can actually grow in. But when I discovered the rabbit situation that was actually the biggest perk right there it was worth having the lovely clover and actually the white clover is nice because it's a smaller leaf. The red clover it is a little bit too stocky and coarse to have in a lawn but I suppose the rabbits would go for that too. And you don't get much winter kill on that clover. You know I haven't been surprised at how it has survived and it's in a rough spot.

It doesn't get it stays covered with snow although we shovel right up to the passage of it so I haven't had any winter kill at all. Well that's good to know. I think I'm going to leave some of mine definitely for my husband. That are not telling the rabbits need it. My Well you know I have to have that but you know I've had rabbits hiding underneath the rhubarb and even in the urban too and they'll just hide in there and I just think that's so weird to the little baby bunnies are in there and I had to actually you know but a moment pet tapping him on the butt with my hand. Get out get out. You're kidding. It's amazing. They're like the deer are here. They're oblivious to here. Totally going to chase him away from me and I think we have two families of rabbits out there right now so yeah I know I have a lot of bunnies but I was out there yesterday gardening waiting which is that time of the year and they were frolicking all over the place and I was just looking at them like big eating machine.

You know what about it. What about cats in particular you're living in a somewhat here or rather writing grammarian there's you know folks have cats and so they're wandering around the neighborhood which brings up a whole different thing. What's your take on that. I am you know there are a lot of people that feed birds and that's the problem with letting your cat go out is that they do terror. You know the songbird that other people are our brain to one concentrated place you know. When you bring the birds to one feed to the feeders that just makes it so easy for the cat to go after him. So what do I think I think they said keep their cats at home too. I do have feral cats that roam around here and I like the feral cats because they do help control I think the small rodent population and I do have Bowl that tunnel all over in the winter and below my and all the rest of that and I really don't like the bowls because once they tunnel

under they'll sit there all winter and eat the roots of your plants and the nice cozy little tunnels they have here. So I when I see the feral cat I hope that they're somehow helping that yeah yeah. You know that's the other thing too is that cats can sometimes use your garden as a litter box which is not very nice. You got my a friend of mine had bought some and then they sold them on line and they they were like little. Thing that she put around the part where she was having a lot of cats and she said it really worked. They're just like oh. Like a pot holder kind of weird little bike you just plastic spiky if Matt anything that would hurt you if you touched it. But apparently with their little soft pad doesn't that cats don't like it and see for the first time they stayed out of our garden. That may be something to try. Where did she find us. Well I know I do aberrated. It was gardener's supply. That's where she got in line.

OK and another thing I think you can put like hardware cloth or something over in the first in the spring if you're you know just seeded something you don't want to. You can just cover the whole thing up it's kind of a hassle taking it off and on but once you get the plants fully established and there's no room then the cats probably won't get into the ground. Well maybe avoid planting things like the cat memes which are a relative a cat nap. You know currently Some cats like those as well. Yeah actually I put in some catnip. We don't you know we don't have a cat and I didn't know there were any cats around the neighborhood but it was good enough to lure one of the neighborhood cats over and it comes and sits by it. Does that role and I know if I think cats know what the real cat nap the cat man is they'd kind of like. But the cat nap i mean it's just they roll their eyes rolled back. That is the greatest thing ever. It's kind of half expecting that to happen but it hasn't it just goes and sits kind of leans out a little bit occasionally a bit. It's the catnip plants and I thought that was funny and it reminded me

that I probably shouldn't put it in again. There you go if you have a problem. Avoid the catnip. Yeah yeah absolutely. And good suggestion about putting spiky things in the in the ground to keep them out when you're seeding What about crows. You know birds and all that other crows are pretty good sized birds. I've never I have heard some barbaric ways to keep crows out but I won't even tell your ID what that is you know that is a big problem and once they decide that they like your yard they're so intelligent that it is really hard to get rid of them. And I really don't have an easy answer for that. You know I wish I did but I don't I have known where people that have just torn their hair out because once they decided that they like their yard and they. Well there's a reason why they call it a murder of crows and a dying group just decided to stay right there.

And they're loud. Yeah they're messy. That's true. I mean that's where the bird netting is supposed to be possible. The thought of covering your entire garden with bird netting is a little daunting. Well and I think just to make it is unattractive as possible no bird bath and no bird food. You know you have to take everything if that's what attracting them is their bird bath a lot of times it is or your water feature cover up their water feature if that's why they're there or if you know you're feeding the other birds are just going to have to put them away and hope for the best. Yeah like I said make it as unattractive as possible and hopefully they'll decide that elsewhere is better. Yeah. How about 9 of somebody who's had problems bluejays getting into their apple trees which is a frustrating to take one little packet out of each apple Oh no which I know is right. And I think then definitely the bird netting. Yeah and you can cover quite a large area with the bird netting you know matter getting it up and over the top I

don't know. Yeah big trees are point but in the apple trees they're fairly you know especially now most people have the Dorf apple tree would be fairly easy to control that if it is an old fashion and maybe you could only do a part of it but still the part that you do. Yeah would be protected. Yeah raccoons have to have a heart trips up and they are very easy to trap and they're very cute when you trap like like the Ground Hog. Yeah that really got cranky. The raccoons almost seem embarrassed by the whole thing. OK. Cotgrave it was well I knew if I kept getting end of that sooner or later but was going to have it. Yeah and you can take them out like you said. However far the DNR and let them listen and they'll I think they'll do fine they're

crafty. Yeah they really are. Again the department resources recommencing relocating an animal you've trapped 10 to 15 miles from where it was captured in order to ensure it does not return and both the raccoons I don't know if 10 to 15 miles be far enough but they are pretty smart. Yeah and they've got a pretty well we have them about about 15 miles and they they didn't make it back and I did travel quite a few for a while because I had a water feature and reckons are very attracted to the water features. But they would take my fish out. You know kind of devil I don't know. And that was why I had to relocate them because they would tear apart the Water Lily and eat my fish they just made a real pest of themselves and their words are they both you know that's the thing is I don't think they were eating the fish because they never bit into. They just took them out and then kind of kind and like I said leveled some of

the scales off which my children were quite young men and it was kind of traumatic for them because they get up in the morning and there'd be their fish laying on the ground looking back at it. And that's exactly why I had to trap them. Yeah but eventually I they just I just kept getting more raccoon. I got rid of the water feature believe it or not I've filled it in and made another garden. Yeah well sometimes he says they really they really do love the water features. And I got tired of dealing with the raccoon. Yeah yeah that's the tradeoff. It really is. There really is and I've heard the same from many many gardeners. But do have a lot of features. I think that's one of the biggest pests is the raccoon tearing everything apart every night because they you know they love to dunk everything in the water. Dear goodness I didn't think about that. You know boy. Yeah ok though if you're thinking about doing a water feature do keep that in mind.

Interactive news for the record and we haven't for years we hadn't really had much of a problem with raccoons but it's becoming more of an issue and the ones that we do see up here are absolutely enormous They look like small bear cubs. I haven't noticed that they do well here as well. They're eating well both raccoons. Yeah it's a little bit disturbing so the really big ones are the ones that maybe make it through the winter or something I had I would have to say yes they put on enough fat to last them all winter long in them. That's really almost scary to see. Like wow i'd trying to picture the size trap that you'd need to put one in there. That's cool. Yeah you might want to go for one up from what they say is a wreck trap for them. Yeah but like I said the trad they are the easiest animals to trap. They love fruit. I'm trying to think what did I spend over ten years. I have the water feature but yeah they they to I think it was fruit that I use and why it be like the first night you get them they go right in.

Oh wow that's so if you are having a problem that's the way to go if you don't mind. You know putting him in the back of your car and taking him out in the country you know. You know if you're going to put him in the back of your car you want to make sure you put down you know like plastic or something. Good point a very good point. Yes you do have to put something underneath the trap. It can be cross. Yes they can. Yeah it gets a little messy. Yeah the whole trapping thing isn't fun. But sometimes. Well and I just talked to the governor's staff this weekend and they were they were trapping out girls that were in their feeder. A lot and you know it's it's no fun to trap but sometimes you just have to do it. They tried everything all the girls the umbrella over the feeder and it was amazing what these acrobatics girls would do to get into those feeders and then once they got on the feeder they didn't want to have to go through all that again so they just sit there all day any dollars. It's like a.. Yeah. That's pretty typical. Well one thing we've been talking about getting rid of you know the animals what about Is there a point where you feel like it's appropriate

to live with it. Is that ever. Sure and I think they're well. For instance moles. I have a real problem with malls because I do have sandy loam hair and mole paradise. They can tunnel with no obstruction. You know as much as they want and I also have a problem with grubs and that's one thing I haven't done anything about my malls because to this point because I'm hoping they're taking care of the Japanese beetle grubs and all the rest of the grubs that are under there and I know the grubs are very Because when I've dug when I've had a dead patch in my yard I've dug it up to see if it was the grubs that were eating the Ritz and sure enough there they were. So I've chosen to peacefully co-exist and just walk around and tap the tunnels down and hope that along with all the earthworms they're also eating the grubs although I tend to think that I also have a lot of earthworms and that's probably what they're eating. I'm hoping. Well it's good to know that the earthworms times are a problem and getting into the

forest area where they're actually you know what. Destroying destroying the forest. Yeah so yeah I know I was amazed to hear that you think earthworms are a good thing. Yeah but in the forest not so support those moles. Right now there's two different kinds Evidently the eastern and a star Knowles and they're pretty good sized So if you're not sure whether it's something a mole or a bowl if it's if it's really big and evidently they can get as big as 7 inches long which is vastly large. I definitely don't have this I just have the other regular startles are more in the wet woodland areas in the Eastern is more in the sandy type area evidently so but I think that their areas overlap a little bit in the sternal as has a real their nose it looks really funny it's like there's little tentacles on the end of it that really so rarely it's other odd looking moles also have those big huge like little claws in the front that they're scooping this oil away from so they're quite different than a mouse or a pole so it's pretty obvious that I definitely have the gold. Well

yeah and they're the ones that are eating the roots. Yeah get rid of them. Yeah don't don't do that they do obviously make up they're rid of the new one. But the goals are and they're actually eating your plant. Well. That is kind of wrapping it up here for 100 gardening movement docking about critters and critter control and even touching a little bit on just living with them which isn't so bad in Terria runa thank you for joining us today we've been speaking with Terry Aki she's the University of Minnesota gardener. She writes for northern gardener magazine and also that web page the Mississippi dash river dot org. I hope they'll visit my website. Northern gardening. Excellent. Well thanks Terry so very much for joining us today. But it was HER AND HER IT and folks if you want to tune in again join you every Friday morning here on Northern gardening. Glad to have you with us if you've got a gardening question you can give us a ring at 3 8 7 10 70 or 1 800 4 7 3 9 8 4 7. And

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