Wisconsin College of the Air; Introduction to the human enterprise; 17; The Nature of truth. Part 2

The Wisconsin College of the air presents philosophy and the human enterprise selected from lectures recorded during the first semester in the classroom of Professor Max auto in his last lecture Professor Otto began a discussion of truth with particular stress on the morality of belief and the distinctions between reality truth and personal conviction. Today Professor Otto continues on that theme with the discussion of truth as it is developed in some philosophic thinking. He begins with an illustration relating facts to truth. Now here is Professor Otto. There's a fourth. A little town on the sea coast of Normandy that looks seaward over very featured couples as their female no mobile have I don't mean on the pier but very big and going to have women in working clothes walk back and forth picking up

those pebbles they have long wicker baskets which they into which they put the pebbles they pick up and then they strap those baskets to their shoulders and carry them to the little carts and those little carts dump them in boats which take them over to England where they Marriage them and make pottery out of you watch one of those boats go out. They're ready for sale. And why the sales of those boats over there are always running and colorful are almost colorless. What one of those boats go out riding deep in the water this big. Keeping that. Green water. Read more water deep cobalt blue water purple where the shadows touch it and I feel as other people who've watched those warts go off felt the tube

you told me and for very many you look away and you wonder about those women gathering those pebbles. It's hard work. It's also hard because they don't pick up you know try to pick up all the pebbles what would they do with it. If they get a pickle. They don't pick up any old people they come to matter of fact there's so much more interesting ones interesting looking ones they don't pick up they pick up a certain kind what kind the kind that can be made in the pottery. In English the only kind thereafter and I know loves that very difficult to find them to the purpose for which they pick up the Bibles goes into the basket with every Pavel they put into a.

Figurative figurative and true. The reason why they pick them up goes into the basket. Just as the pebble goes in for the best. Now think of all those. Women as fact gatherings. Think of those pebbles as data. They don't try to pick up all the data going back. They've gone mad. Anybody prior to that would go mad. Nobody tries to do they pick up all of those pebbles which they can make into facts logic and use aspects to make into the texture of truth. And that's the picture that has been affecting me ever since we began to talk about this whole business of. Fact and truth.

The last time we talked a little about the moral aspect. Of belief that's a phrase almost the phrase a defiler Royce used the morality of belief. One of the also to call attention to that again by using another phrase the conscience of the mind. They can somehow or nother one of the outstanding my judgment outstanding philosophers of the present time. Desire Royce is no longer alive and Dickens know or won't be alive very much longer. Conscience of the mind. There is such a thing as having the conscience of the mind. That is conscious about intellectual work. Not only conscience about our moral life. And then we began to distinguish the less time between

say reality than truth and reality and personal convictions. Things like that and I want to begin today with another quotation and then it will go on. This is by a professor of sociology at Boston University. Watch and see how he moves from one area to another. And does it very well. I believe in truth. He's giving a chapel talk because of a chapel talk not just chapel talk. Call an unorthodox. I believe in God. Not in they know I believe in truth. You see I've given that away started the second paragraph is to the first paragraph first paragraph errs I believe in truth. Not merely the fragmentary rules

we have discovered long ages of fondling and success but in the ultimate truth he starts with writing Terry Crews and goes to ultimate truth writes one with a small letter other with a capital letter that always makes a lot of difference. Funny hear him say all this I'm saying that nothing funnier when you write a word with a capital letter then somehow or other it exerts marriage on you and you think there is a different thing existing corresponding to your capital letter. It's always said not nearly any Raglan Terry. Truth is what the ultimate truth which we may never find and whose search alone is given the direction and in whose search alone is given direction and meaning to life.

Now the second part I believe in God. And I stop and say all right you believe in truth and you believe in God but please don't mix them up. He's going to I believe in God not in the petty executive who has time to concern himself like an old P.A. inspector with my insignificant misdeeds. Not indulgent having my father smothering his child's opportunity for self reliant growth under a blanket of affection. What had glorious God the Curia a torrent in degraded power and process of the universe whose nature beyond the knowledge and imagination of man is the truth. We see capital T capital G cavity and in conformity to which we discover the universal beneficence that men everywhere have C seemed to long for. Look what he's doing. Not not the gods that may be

God as you believe not this executive not this father and all that. That's lower case but this is great to see. Not every day True but this is great. He goes from one to the other. The ones we deal with every day not is what he's talking about. It's the illusive one that we can't get that that he's talking about both as to truth and both as to God and then he combines them. And then God becomes. And truth becomes that he loses something. The search for which gives life to all its meaning. I want to go with the last. One have. Let's have something to do with them about the subject of philosophers digital philosophy and philosophers are clear about one thing. Don't confuse things with truth.

Don't confuse reality with truth I think. Far as I know them I know a good many of them. Past and present and future do. Practically none of them makes a mistake and we've been talking about. Truth is limited by them to be leaves and judgements and assertions and ideas not. Don't hold not said don't hold things. After that however is that clear first. Truth is a quality of ideas not a quality of things. But from there on they differ. And if we can get some of the major standpoints on of the major positions some of the ways in which they differ We've have a background to think about this subject not in this class but afterwards the lot of you. Take take their philosophical religious

and I'd like to talk about people that are here too instead of talking about some of the someone else. Gives it gives me it gives it a reality when I can think that the man I'm talking about walks and his view is embodied in him. I can look at him at work look at his view. Resume Gilbert whom you don't know. He was one really great man we've had here who retired some years ago was at any rate at that time. I don't know whether he still is in the same way a philosophic realist. And his test for truth getting around to that. Business we were talking about the other day just touched upon the other day his test for truth his test for the truth of a judgment or an idea or a statement would be its agreement agreement or correspondence with agreement with our correspondents with the reality about which it is the idea.

That's a realistic position. Not that the reality is the truth. No the reality is not the truth and the truth is not the reality but the truth. Is a correspondence in the idea or in the statement or in the belief or in the judgment about the reality. If they correspond then the statement you make is true if they do not correspond and if they don't you are not. The students in the class here one time said this very well and I want to go from Mr. McIlvaine to a student because they belong together. Mr. McGill his view is much deeper and richer than the students us because he's thought of a great deal. This student says. And I'm sure you'll agree with him right off of that beautiful statement just as gold was in the market

and someone bought it was there or I thought it wasn't their sole truth exists and then believe it or do not believe that the gold is in the mountains. And some people believe it said some people don't but it's there. Or it's not there. Whatever they believe just as Gore is in the mountains and someone thought it was their own kind wasn't there so truth exists and then believed it or do not. He thinks the proof. Is in the long run but he goes on fixes him self up man no more make the truth than they do the gold. They find they discover it. Or they miss finding Mr Scott. What is there all the time. If they think it's there and it is there.

Then their idea is true and if they think it is there and it isn't there then their ideas Faustus see in August LEHRER Mr. McGovern would put it not always clear but you get his idea if you believe or say there's gold in them or Mons and there is a new right is true and if not its fault. That's a realistic position. Philosophic realism. Trouble. The trouble with it is my judgement that the problem is up to you to find out how are you going to find out whether the gold is there. The advantage of it is this that the statement is true all the time the moment you make a statement it's true you don't have to wait. The View I'm going to Brazil before me get through I hope as my own. You have to wait. Not true until you dig into the muck.

The values of this is it's true right away the moment to say something it's either true or false because it either resembles conditions or doesn't. What caught your attention to another gentleman who is also no longer here once was on our staff in our department. Also a. Great sort of recruit great man. I recall John. He's not. He's not a thoughtless offered realist I don't get why he might call himself tossed off a reel. Nobody likes me because. I'm really. Annoyed of you who have suggested very interesting and I think. It always makes me smile when you do that. After. After the indicted are kicked around and pushed around and face rubbed in the dirt and

everything like that that have some young student who is hardly gone up against things yet calling naive and some smile. Let's him smile a little grimly once in a while because he says to himself or what that. Young man with that young woman has come to that. They'll discover by and by. With your position is not naive. It's much more profound than naively position of the student who calls you list very profoundly informed man. And wouldn't like to. Live. But I just you know I have philosophical real philosophical idealist much more interested in ideas and excellences one of his best talks was democracy in action action democracy in action.

Maybe you already knew it was there not long ago. There's a chapter here written 28 years ago 28 I think it's about 28 years ago in a book. Freedom and the college. Alexander McCall Joyner mentioned it. Freedom on the college and the first chapter I don't know how many times I've read it because it always gets me excited. It's called To whom are we responsible. We teachers and universities to whom are we responsible. And the rat runs off the various. All areas of various types of people of various classes or groups of people whom we might be thought to be responsible. Are we responsible to the public. What do you take us for. Response be educated. Are we responsible to the parents know how well they send their children to universities for if they can educate them as well as we can

are responsible to the students. Clearly we are not. Where we are responsible for our students but not to them. Are we responsible to the public of our daughter. Are we responsible to the dollars. Surely not the temple gets a little class and the general atmosphere gets a little warmer. Are we responsible to the alarm in our well heart. That's still all I responsible to the churches. Very interesting page 12 very interesting what he does there. He doesn't say why either side knows other cases each knows this time he does they do not want us to be that's the last thing they would want us to be responsible to them.

Softer answer. Nice redundant use of time. Some people would be so crude knows enough already were are but are we not responsible to the state most. To whom then are we response in a way to each other as searches for truth. But not really that either. Well then to whom. To the truth. The search for the truth. Let me read you a little of what is this truth and use something other than ourselves as something apart to which we may acknowledge our responsibility. I think it is.

I think that thinking means that somehow in the very nature of the world there is a meaning which we see a meaning which is there when we find it there are not. That meaning is the final standard for our work a measure of all we do or hope to do or fail to do to it to that meaning. We are responsible. This meaning which we do not fully know as yet which you can never fully know is not an easy thing to talk about just so the beauty which men have not seen yet yearn to see the goodness which men cannot reach but which mankind must strive to gain. The Endore which he makes his way these final Amzi Ludar grasp but that's what we are responsible to. Therefore you see if you make a statement if you write a paper you. Have a belief that corresponds to the meaning of the universe the developing gradually developing meaning of the universe the idea

is true and if not it's not true. Here all is the relation of your belief to something outside of the belief that as a philosopher of the one case it's the eternal world and if you're right it corresponds to a material world that is true in this case the material world has a meaning and if it corresponds to the meaning it is true and if it does not. I'd like to use you know just for a moment. The one that counts me all the time. That's the idea of another great philosophic idealist this time no doubt about it being of all soft idealism and that's the sire wars. I want to fight off the bat. Attempt on victory. I haven't thought of it or what time you're going to

have enough alone time. Let's see what will happen. I get a kick out of the fact that I didn't think of this before. Well he had a tremendous brow there having broad. Rather small wide know and a very long upper lip. You've got. Lots of something like lots of parts. Oh good.

Big year. We have a lot on the line. You think this is exactly this. We had our little tour not too bad not too bad. In the fingers. You know thank you. I've heard it said that he was not a very tall man. I thought he was tall. And I've always felt that the reason why people thought he wasn't tall is that he's head was so big that it took up a large proportion of the total length. And when that happens then the ring gets shorter and the smaller is harry is the taller he is given the same I.

O taken some norm for example knew him personally I met number men who have known him personally I was a tall man I didn't know when I go away and don't discuss it any more because I know he was tall. While he was one of the profilers look about her. While the profoundest man in the history of forced and I only hear when you were out. And he had ideas about this truth business and I want to introduce you to it. He always he always goes one way if we have time before we get through. I want to talk to you about him once more. Not about truth but about something else. Take this situation man says Joe is an awfully conceited person.

When he says that what Joe was he talking about destroy says he's talking about his job. He always has as the object of your statement the selected object thing process where he's talking about. Is he talking about young boys Joerg you know he's talking about his Joe. He says Joe is a very conceited person and that Joe he's talking about is his selected Joe the Joe. That he's thinking of. And it's always that he can't be anything else but. Joe. Himself. Thinks Joe is a modern moderately restrained person when it comes to estimating himself whose job was

last. That's Joe Joe Joe is talking about. Joe is Joe and Frank is talking about Frank's Joe and the two don't meet and are always in that situation Mr. Weiss begins with that whenever you say anything if you say this reading thing here is beautiful then the reading thing you're talking about is not the one I'm talking about. You're talking about the one you're talking about and that's beautiful. You wouldn't say it was beautiful unless it were the one that is beautiful. And I'm talking about you know. OK. His point his problem is this. How can anybody ever make a mistake. How can he ever be wrong. He's always talking what he's talking about. He's always saying about it.

What he finds in it because he selected that to talk about not going to make it was De Sole that he thinks Royce thinks the basic problem in logic and in this area we're talking about is to discover what the world must be like since it's obvious people can make mistakes. And since I've just shown they can't so we must not be looking at the things straight. Ordinarily they can make mistakes. I've just shown you they can't. They always talk about what they mean to talk about. And if they're sincere they're always telling the truth about. Let's take her home. He's talking about Joel and Joe is a very conceited person. Well let's let's have him represented by life. That's right and that's Joe and you can see that with one of. His friends.

That you know. Frank was talking about job a lot about. You're always talking about MY GOD talking about him and you're always not talking or thinking about. It there's no. God there. One imagines this job to be. Solaced. He can't make a mistake because he's talking about this stuff like why he can't make a mistake because he's going to select the one but supposing or another one or supposing hear it like that Roy. You say the more. He sees this he sees Joyce takes enjoy your steak with about Joe. That's right isn't it. I mean frank statement about you know what he sees that the statement applies to Frank's Joe not

Joe. And he sees all he sees articles and let me know if he doesn't know he doesn't because he also is out of the league and he now hires Royce's Joe and Royce is frank and. Horse is conceptual what Frank says about and I don't have to go on with the only possible solution of that problem will be there. Remember now it's beginning. Mysteries are bad if there's anything certain about the world of yours and we do make mistakes. That's true but there's we have set things up so far. There can be an almost everybody is always talking about what he's talking about and not something else. The only basis there on which there can be a mistake is that there is

a view of things not Royce's because he's another harm some something like you're always in the literal fire box. And absolutely experience or. In the home. Joe the real I mean price a real friend and Frank's idea of yours and the real joy and Joe's idea of Joe and every other. Experience is present form great all comprehending experiences present side by side. And who can then decide because of the presence of all these really that blind statement about Joe is not true of Joe although it is true of Frank's job.

He writes according to silence your silence is something. It's a thing almost. That's nice but if you're really listening truth then is this. If you happen to have a view of things you have never judged you have that feeling you have to make a statement which corresponds away the experience or experiences it. Would you experience is not only what you believe in at that moment but also what you should believe as that belief of yours is carried out to its full expression which will be in this case for I am getting to the real Joe. It's all there if you have a comprehensive experience it takes all that in and seize upon that. You get that you feel you know you could put it this way.

Briefly an idea is true if it corresponds with agrees where is identical with that idea as that idea is in the mind or experience of the total experience or understanding of God. If you look at say anything if you look at a thing if you make a judgement. And that corresponds to the way God perceives it comprehends it thinks that experience and experiences that it's true. If not it's wrong place. You decide you know of course I'm not I'm not course I'm not. Look at this. I just told you that.

Drop by. I keep calling him Joe. BUSH I started out with a wish right. I said Frank. Always sees only his own. Your. Dog Sees. Frank and Frank you know and jaw and jaws jaw and all of what you say is this and more for Kennedy and more of it. Except in a comprehensive. Sense. That we have no language to describe. Doesn't seem logical like this. Doesn't this doesn't this seem more like a logical creationist concept appears in order to get rid of logical difficulties or psychological difficulties all difficulties. Maybe it seems so to you and that's why I say this is a very teasing point of view.

I keep coming back to it trying to work it out never I'm quite satisfied with it but we must lose track of this. Roy starts by saying error the possibility of error or the fact of there is in disputable. He started with that and then he says this is the only way in which error Keren be explained because it's not only turns out to be wrong. That is one point. Frank says Joe is a very conceited person. It doesn't take a week or 10 days or two years to find out it's either true or somebody says it isn't there and the only way it can be an error is that some larger experience takes it in and sees that it isn't there otherwise it accordingly. This is not. I wouldn't pretend that anything Roy's ever did was a simple. Lesson

but. All I'm getting at is this there are people he's one of the greatest of them who insists the truth of the statement is true. Let's say position is proven. Cars sponsor the way God looks at things. These are a good example of that he makes a good argument for that and it's one that would be so bad for you to struggle with. Let's say that again because I want to say that all the love. And anyone ever said a lie can anyone ever differentiate. Between a single type of experience said. Larry go as you keep saying a thing over and different each time he says a little differently

and then he gets me mixed up. Say it simply it was bad enough even when you had a simple you don't have to complicated I mean it was elusive and hard to get at say at some point and see if we can sustain it. Has anyone ever differentiated. Go ahead. Can anyone ever differentiate between OK. Between a single experience. And personal selection. I don't get it. Now. Why I have to give you up.

Not that is necessarily your fault. I dust. I just. Fail to get what you're driving at. They and I mustn't keep this thing going when it unless somebody else is in the same quandary that you are then we can but I don't get you laid. You have the same question. Now watch this watch this. She has the same question. If we were allowed to bet I'd bet 10 the one she has a question that's utterly different and maybe that'll last break the very thing we're talking about. Yeah all right come on. She says How can how can anybody ever find out that his truth corresponds to the absolute truth. And she said that's the same question now is a good place for me to. Isn't that good. He said yes. Listen this is a good list. He says Yes I was going to ask him myself. I was going to ask my question

myself and see what he'd do. He's a good friend of yours. You know even though I'm I realize it is a good friend of yours. No that's those are not the same questions. Is that what you meant. Yes vaguely that's what you mean. Oh yes I guess so. No sir. If that's what you meant that's fine because I'm going to answer that. Why don't why. That's easy to answer. It's very difficult to find out as a matter of fact I don't know how you find. That. One of the difficulties with how are you going to find out I suppose. I suppose Rush's answer would be I've never been able to satisfy myself exactly what it is but I suppose it would be that as you become more and more general in your explanation I should get a broader and broader interpretation of what you're talking about. You're moving in the direction of God.

Neat not inside it's fact. Where are all what great we have to realize we have a couple of idealists one one much more logical I mean logical intellectual and intellectual than the other. And then we have still one to consider which we were just considering passing out is that an idea as to a statement is true and judge was true if it fits consistently into a system of ideas which you happen to accept as basic. Consistency in tile consistency. We used to have a man on our staff. Frank Sharp. It was a nother idealist of another story. Mark remember we talked about him just a moment one one time before and I would have been here is concept of true if you can make your idea

fit in with the general system consistently nip it in as you do that you're moving in the direction of truth. Well I want to leave that all of those are those are there. There are all those but those are the prominent ones Descartes Descartes belongs in that classification. Why headlines in that last vision I want to go to a last one just a moment on that and then let's finish it up on Friday. Both of you are here. In contrast with all of these each up a. Fair bit and I are dear years to the moment you have a belief is true the moment you have a false statement is true the moment you make it or false. It's a character of the statement. Does it agree with this. Does it meet this requirement. I want to suggest that it is neither true or false until it's actually found to be so the truth is something that

in William James's dream analogy. Happens to the idea. It's not something or the belief or the state it's not something that the idea or belief or statement has. More give you nice quotation of life than I want then I would talk to myself on their own and not with some of these others. But here is a good one. Dr William L. mail you know Rochester in Minnesota. Truth is not absolute and not mathematical. You don't discover it at all. That's my view. You put it together you make it. You find a fact you add a new fact and you have to reinterpret your truth you have to remake your truth. Truth is a human product.

You can't make it any old way you want. You have data to go by you have facts to go by you have reality go and all that sort of thing but nevertheless you make it and then he says this unaccountable thing he ends up this paragraph or this unaccountable thing and I wish you had telephone me before you publish this and what we better do this or I would have said to know leave that last off for goodness sake. You started so well now don't mess it up and then you he would have problems to just be harassed. Truth is something you seek and never find. You say How do you get through that and what he said. Truth is not absolute or mathematical. You don't discover it you put it together. You find a fact and another fact and you remake your true but if you never find a mate. When I why didn't you say this. Truth is something you seek

and are never through seeking and you never find violate. But keep on finding all the time. I'm. Afraid I'm going to give you. Since we're at the end of the year let me give you a definition of live life to get what I like to put in place of all of these not want the types out of the course of the site including any one of those men. I'll tell you what they think about this definition after I've given it a say or an idea or believe the statement the judgment is true. If. It if. When you bring it to the test. Of the. Tests.

That are applicable to that. Kind of idea. It stands up to the test. A very simple definition of an idea belief or a statement. Judgment is true. When tested by the tests that are applicable to that kind of idea. If it's a chemical idea one thing it's physical it's another thing of it's biological it's another thing of it's musical some other thing it's literary it's another thing religious It's another thing if when tested by the kind of test that is applicable to that kind of idea I mean you have a while that the experience is shown to be applicable. It stands the test then it's true and if it doesn't that's false. Tell you what these man Mr. Michael John Mr McGill re Mr. Sharp Mr. Royce undoubtedly would say about that definition. They would say. Some of them have.

He'll grow up I'm dying. At present. He doesn't see the difference between a test and true. Growth of one thing the test being nothing to which. This immature person replies. I don't make an interesting. How are you going to find to truth except. In terms of the test for truth or do you get this other can. Accept. Wrong and not accept wrong. Where do you get this other group get Truth capital T as a generalization from Cruise t are you we us. Each of which is the result of your concrete specific

particular testing. Let me give you in conclusion A perfectly. Maybe you think they know our cheap low. Concept illustration exam. And you can go out with that. Say what you please about it. It's symbolic it's representative. All you have to do is apply generously and widely and you have this idea and often take a homerun baseball man it's a ball. Look at all the colors. So I like the richness of the field you have before you lose God. Clouds and sky. All these colorful bleachers. People running around green grass sand everything. Wonderful picture. I'm tired says Vero. What makes an affair and makes an affair

flying out and that curve that makes an affair wrong. What makes a variable. He makes it a fair ball. When he tested by the rules that are applicable to that kind of experience. And before that it was neither fair or foul. And when he applies a rule it becomes fair and generalize that and you have a marvelous moving bridge captivating fascinating carrying away concept of truth with which you can go. You heard another in a selected number of lectures from the course philosophy on the human enterprise recorded in the classroom a Professor Max Otto in his next lecture Professor Otto begins a discussion of the problems of the moral life going from the question of truth to the question of morality and the distinction between right and wrong.