Louisiana Legends; Nellie Lutcher

Funding for the production of Louisiana Legends is provided in part by the Friends of Louisiana Public Broadcasting and by Union National Life Insurance, a Louisiana company serving Louisiana and the South since 1926. [Theme Music] New York City is a kind of a tough place to turn on. But in the 1940s that city

was turned on by a young lady who drove them absolutely crazy with such songs as "Hurry Down to My House," "Fine Brown Frame" and "He's a Real Gone Guy." She's still doing it after these years. Folks, here is the great Nellie Lutcher. Nellie, hello. Hello, Gus. You know, I want to share this with our audience. Some people have unique talent. They enter a room and the room changes. It's not the same room. Nellie Lutcher entered this studio today to make this program and it's a dismal day outside and, all of a sudden, it's like all the lights have come on. She's just got that kind of personality. You really do. Bless you. Thank you. Nellie, how was it growing up in Lake Charles, Louisiana? That was years ago. What kind of a...what kind of an experience was that? One, it was beautiful. It was poor. I don't think there's anybody ever lived any poorer than my folks, and there were many of us, the Lutchers. And the thing that my...that I'm prouder of, I think, than anything is the fact that

my folks realized that at a very early age, you know, that I had talent. I inherited my dad's talent. My dad was a very fine bass player, played all of the string instruments, in particular the bass. And they recognized this and really saw to it that I was put under one of the finest instructors, Mrs. Eugenia K. Reynaud who is well known or was in these times, but she's been deceased. And she really took me under her wings and just trained me and groomed me. So those are some of my fondest memories. I think we ought to share with the folks - Nellie has just gotten back this day from Lake Charles, her hometown, and she was honored by everybody that can honor a person from Lake Charles. There were bands... there was the mayor. Ahhh. Never, I have never had an experience like that before, honestly. There were about four bands, those young people, you know, they're all out there playing and kicking up and doing their bit and just as enthusiastic as you'd ever want to see anything.

And then there was the mayor who came with this proclamation. The train stopped. The train is always in a hurry and they even had called the conductor, told the conductor that they wanted them to, you know, they, they had something planned. I wasn't aware of this, but they had something planned. So the train stopped in Lake Charles for about...they all stopped and witnessed this. Now when you left Lake Charles years ago as a young girl going to seek your fortune -- Yeah -- if anybody would have ever told you, Nellie, one day you will come back here and four bands and the town and the mayor and everybody who's anybody will turn up to honor you, what would you have said? Would you have said they were crazy? Oh, I suppose so. I just wouldn't have believed it, Gus. You know, I...I just wouldn't have believed it. So you're a unique person in that you're one of those rare people who has seen their dreams come true. Honestly, I have and it's a blessing. It's great and it's a blessing. I've been blessed in many ways. Okay, Nellie. So there was music in your family. Yes. Your dad was a musician and they saw that you had lessons. So how old were you when you began - was it playing the piano

and singing or just playing? Just playing the piano. I didn't really start singing until I went to California and the public made me sing. I had no idea. I had, I hadn't even thought, given the first thought to ever being a singer. Now in Lake Charles you played with the Imperial Orchestra. Right. How old were you when you sat at that piano? Oh, I must have been, I guess, about 14, about 13 or 14 years old, maybe a little younger than that even because I was playing in church when I was eight years old. I was playing... Eight years old? Yes. Goodness. At the New Sunlight Baptist church, I was playing for the Sunday school, and I was an assistant to my music teacher who was training me. Not singing, just playing? No, just playing the piano. Nellie, when, as still a very young girl, you were playing in this hotel orchestra. Did the folks keep a close eye on you? Make sure you were okay? Oh yes, oh yes. Kind of chaperone you? When my father was around, boy, you better believe very watched. With all those old musicians, huh?

Yes, I married, I married very, very young, Gus. I married a man who was much, much my senior and I guess the reason I married because my father had put the fear of death in me and of anything. Of course. So, you know, I say well now they tell me that you know married life and everything is all wonderful, but I don't think it's worth me, you know, getting myself in Dutch with my dad. Yes. So he instilled this in me so I married very young, but it didn't last.T o make papa happy, you got married? I got married, but it didn't last but two months because it wasn't, there's nothing happening there. And I was bored and found out that I'd made a mistake so I just quit the scene. Now you were 20 and you took off for Los Angeles. That, that had to be a very frightening experience for a young lady from Lake Charles, Louisiana. Would you go on the train, I guess. Of course, I did. On the train. I think at, I think at that time it cost about twenty-seven dollars.

Were you scared, Nellie? No, I wasn't afraid. The little experience that I had had just along Lake Charles working, you know, in clubs and not particularly that we didn't have that many nightclubs then. We used to play dances -- Yes -- and parties, you know. Didn't know what we're gonna make a lot of times, you know. We played percentage dances. Perhaps you'd get and perhaps you don't get. Perhaps not. Yes. I didn't, I didn't, I had no fear when I left. Well, one reason the gentleman Clarence Hart who was the leader of the Imperial jazz band that I started playing in with my dad. He was in California and his family, they had moved out to California several years. At the time he tried to get my father to move, but Dad wouldn't, he wouldn't go. So I had, you know, these people out there. And I had many friends and relatives there that sort of encouraged me, egged me, to come on. And in fact it was my cousin, one of my cousins who got my first job for me there.

What was it doing in, in Los Angeles? I was, well, I played at the Dunbar Hotel which used to be a very popular spot on Central Avenue. So my cousin knew the people that owned the place, knew the bartender there very well and it was right around the corner, say about two blocks from where my aunt lived. And he said I hear they need a piano player around the corner at the Dunbar Hotel. He says, I'm going to go around there and talk to the fella. I may be able to get that job for you. Well, I wasn't in a union or anything, you know, and the union wasn't very strong at that time. So I said okay. So he went round and talked to them and they said bring her around, bring her around. So he brought me around there and I played a few pieces for them and they hired me. $2 a night. Okay, so it's $2 a night. What are the hours? From 8 'til 2. 8 'til 2, two bucks a night. Six nights a week. And the kitty. You get the kitty, you know. So this is where they started asking me to sing. And I said, well, I'm not singer. I don't sing, you know. Oh,

I really like your voice. Don't you know some song you can sing? So I did know a couple of, you know, the average person that plays, they have one or two songs they like and do well, even if you're not a professional person. So I had one or two songs that I did like and had I'd do one song and they'd say sing something else. So when I'd sing the other song, well that was it. Well, that was the end of my singing repertoire. Two songs and if they asked for an encore, they were on their own, huh? So,I would do, I would, you know, I'd do the song and they like that's what we want to hear you sing, they kept saying it. And I tell you what they would do. They'd go and get a glass and sit on the piano. That was the kitty. They'd put something in and say now come on, we want to hear you. Honey, I just don't sing. I've never even given it a thought. Really I had planned, Gus, to be an arranger and an orchestrator as they call them now, you know. This is what I had planned to do. I had studied under, arranging under Al Wilson who was out of New Orleans, also out of Chicago, and I was really turned

on to that. I liked it, I just enjoyed it. It's a very, very creative thing, you know. So entertaining wasn't particularly your thing? You weren't crazy over it. No, I wasn't even thinking about it, but the public had me know what they wanted, wanted to see me do and hear me do. What, what finally convinced you that hey this singing, I might have it, Nellie Lutcher just might have it. Well, as I say, when they kept on, they kept on insisting and they were so persistent about it, I said, well, if they're like this, I might as well do something about it. So this started me to, you know, to concentrating on songs and then I, I didn't want to take a song and do it like somebody else would do it. Ella, Ella Fitzgerald at that time, wasn't even, she wasn't even well Ella was, she was just coming into her own about that time. What artists did influence you? Who did you used to listen to and kind of say, I'd like to, that's my goal. Well, I admired Ella greatly. I remember her because Ella came along about the time that I went to California. She was just getting popular and there was another gal that used to sing, Clara something her name. Played the piano and

sang, "Shut the windows and block the doors." I can't think of it. I can hear it from your fingertips. You know what I'm saying? I can't think of a name, but this girl was very popular when I went to California in '35. She was from Chicago and she was playing and singing, you know. She had a little soft voice and she was very, very, very popular at the time. Nellie, you sang and played the piano for about nine years and then I want to ask you: How did you come across a number called "Fine Brown Frame" which, I think, was your first great hit, was it not? No, no, no. No? " Hurry on Down." "Hurry on Down?" Well, tell me about that first hit then, "Hurry on Down." Well, "Hurry on Down" is an original tune. "Hurry on Down" and "Real Gone Guy." They're both my tunes. You wrote them also? Yes, I wrote both of them. "Hurry on Down," I was working in a little place in Los Angeles called The Club Royal. I went to work there two weeks and stayed there three years. And

at that time I was doing a little singing, you know, and well as I say, the more I sang, the more the people wanted me to sing. The more I sang and I found myself arranging my own little songs and writing songs. And there was a song, another song out, I can't think of the title of it now. And they would come up and ask me to do the song and I didn't know. The tune they were asking for, I did not know it. I said, well I don't know that. And they said, well, that would be a good song for you. And I said, well I don't know it and so I got to thinking about it and says well, I'm going to write my own song with the title similar to that. So I wrote "Hurry on Down" and I was doing it and they loved it. They just absolutely loved it. Did that become a hit? "Hurry on Down"? Yeah, that became a big hit. Yeah when I recorded it, it was my first big record, yes. But I when when I finally was discovered by Capitol Records, Dave Dexter of Capitol Records, they wanted to know the songs that I had been doing. Well, really, when I got with Capitol I had a ready-made repertoire, you know. Yes. "Hurry on Down." Not "Real Gone Guy" because I just wrote that

after I started recording because they wanted me to write some original things when they found out I did have writing ability. "Fine Brown Frame" was a tune that Buddy Johnson - you remember Buddy? That's familiar, yes. Buddy's still around, you know. He works with various people. He doesn't have a band of his own. But at that time he did "Fine Brown Frame" and of course "Fine Brown Frame" was written for a woman. You're talking about the woman's frame. Yes. So I liked it. I just liked the song. I said well, doggone it, I'm going to turn this thing around and talk about a man with a fine brown frame. And at that time I happened to have known a guy who had a fine brown frame. Who had a fine brown frame. So I did it and this was before I started recording. This is before I ever thought about making a record also, just like "Hurry on Down." So I would do it in the club, and every time I'd do it, they'd come in and ask for it, I'd get in my little kitty box was there and I'd get tips for doing "Fine Brown Frame." I'd have to do it sometimes three or four

times a night. And when I started recording, as I say, they wanted to know some of the tunes that I'd been doing in clubs. And I mentioned "Fine Brown Frame" and "Real Gone." I mean not "Real Gone," "Hurry on Down." "The Lady is in Love with You" and "Let me Love you Tonight" and those are things that I'd been doing. "Sleepy Lagoon." And they said, well... Dave Dexter said, well, I'll tell you what we do. I'd like to hear you do just some test records in the studio to see how your voices are. Many people who sing, you know, they sound good, but they don't record well. Their voices don't record well. So I think I was a very difficult person to record because when I'm singing into the microphone, I'm singing very, very soft, you know. And they had marvelous, marvelous engineers there that really captured and picked up what I was doing. Nellie, one of the big things that happened was kind of a peculiar thing. In 1947, you were performing on a March of Dimes broadcast. Yes, yes. And a Capitol Records executive heard you on that radio broadcast. Dave Dexter. And what

happened? Dave Dexter heard me and he contacted me. He had a little problem, he said, trying to get in touch with me. I don't know why, because he probably didn't think to call the musicians' union, you know. But he was trying to contact me because he had heard my voice. My brother took some records, some little homemade records we made, you know, so he heard...Joe took some records of his that he had also done the same thing and he took my records and Dave remembered this voice. He remembered my voice. He didn't like the songs he said, but he remembered the voice and so he... When he heard me on the March of Dimes he said, That's that gal, that's that gal whose voice I've heard before and he started out right away to get in touch with me. So Joe Alexander, who is from Alexandria...You're not far from Alexandria, are you? No, we're not. Well, I know many of the folks who probably hear this will know Joe Alexander, whose a very dear friend of mine. Well, Joe also was with Capitol at the time. Dexter liked his voice, beautiful

ballad singer. And so he kinda, he told Joe Alexander as Joe was visiting once. He said, "Do you know Nellie Lutcher?" Joe said, "Oh, that's one of my friends, one of my best friends and we've known each other since our Louisiana days." He used to sing with a group called Chrome Serenaders, I think. And it all started from that. So I got the message through Joe Alexander that Dave Dexter wanted to see me so I made the contact and I went down and did an interview for him. And, folks, so y'all will know what Nellie Lutcher went on from. She went on from 20 bucks a night to about $3,000 a week. Right. How did all that money affect a little girl from Lake Charles? I tell you when you've been without a long, long time... Of cours, I think this is one problem today with a lot of deals as they make money too fast, too soon, you see. The first thing was in my mind was to remember, I could never forget those days when I didn't have anything. Yes.

Oh, you know, I came from, could never forget those days back in Lake Charles. When I left Lake Charles I was still going outdoors to the john and I was still lighting the kerosene lamp. I had my turn to clean the lamp and the kerosene. You don't forget those things. No. So I always said, and I remember going to the john where we used to have to stand in line some time to, it was a big family, you know, to get in our little john. Right. So I said whenever I get to be, if I make any money, if ever I get a break, I'm going to have a house, I'm going to have johns all over the place. That's how success is noted, huh? A bunch of bathrooms. Nellie, a white man named Barney Josephson played a big part in your career. He certainly did. Tell us about that. What happened? Barney Josephson was a man who, he was the first white man to bring into New York City many black artists, you see, and this was absolutely unheard of. You could go into Harlem and hear people like

Lena Horne and some of the people like that, Billie Holiday and all those people. Barney was the first man to bring them to open up this Cafe Society which was really a choice spot for anybody who wanted entertainment. And he featured all mostly black entertainment. Some of the, some of the big names, the biggest names in the business of the day got their start with Barney. And he was the type of man, he likes this type of music and he still does and still is, you know, a great, great, great lover of black music. And when I came along, he happened to have heard my record, Hurry on Down" and on the other side was "The Lady's in Love With You." He was also a great friend of...who was the writer's name of that? I can't think of it. Can't think of his name now, but you know what we're talking about. TAnyway, they were great friends and he this guy I think he invited Barney to his place or something to hear this record because he was very pleased at my rendition of "The Lady's in Love with You,"

the song he wrote. And so Barney, well he flipped over both sides. He said I've got to get this gal to come out. I got to get her to New York. So he was coming out to the coast anyway. So when he came to the coast. Well, the first person he called was Dave Dexter because he knew Dave and he said, listen, he says, I heard this record...you know the records, I don't know if they still do this or not because I haven't had any hits or any records for him lately. In New York, the records, you know, they're, they're played there first. They start publicizing them. When he heard this record,he just flipped over it and he said, "Listen, I want to know about this gal, this Nellie Lutcher." "Dave," he said, "I gotta bring this gal to New York." He said that. I want to know something about her so they talked and talked. And Dave said,"Well, I think that would be great." Well, the record had already become a hit in New York. It was a hit. He said, "That record's a hit. My God, that record is being played day and night and I don't even think it was even on the market to sell yet." Goodness. See, but it was, at that time they used to promote the devil out of records.

I want to share with our friends what kind of a lady Nellie Lutcher is. This same man, Barney Josephson, Nellie's just spoken of. He once gave Nellie a thousand dollar bonus and Nellie Lutcher gave it back to him and said, "You've done so much for me. No bonus is necessary." And that's the kind of a lady Nellie Lutcher is. She's the real thing, a great artist and a real lady. But I took the thousand dollars. I accepted the thousand dollars. But now the story I read you turned it down. No. Did he make you take it? No, he didn't make, he really, of course, you know that sounds very good, but it wasn't quite that way. Not quite that way? He said that... he made a remark, too, that I said that he was the first, but that wasn't true because it was a gentleman who owned the little club in Los Angeles, The Club Royal, this man I worked for him and I don't think I was getting but $25 a week working for him. I see. You know where that story's out of? Just so you'll know, the New York Times. I know it. Well, he told me so. I thought that everything in the New York Times was true. Well, it was told like he told it to

John Wilson. It's his story, I see. John is, no, no, no he told it, Barney's story, see? Yeah, Barney told him and, you know, I didn't correct him. I should have. I should have told him because when Leonard[?] Castile heard about this, he said, "Nellie Lutcher," he said. "You know you work for me." And I tell you what this man used to do, Gus. This man used to give me a vacation every year. Wow. And gave me a bonus every year. Wow. On this little $25 a week job. So he was very decent to you? He kept me three years and he said, I thought I was pretty nice to you for the time. And I said, you certainly were. And I hadn't really thought seriously about it before then so I didn't get a chance to correct Barney, but Barney did give me this bonus and I thought it was very wonderful because he didn't have to do that. That's what I was trying to say. And I was going in for a very, very, oh my God, the salary was just ridiculous, but Dave Dexter talked me into it and told me the advantage because at that time my son was a little fellow. I had a son. He was a little bitty guy and I got to thinking about him. I says, oh I just can't leave my little boy. I can't do this. I just can't. He needs me because my

husband and I had separated. And Dave Dexter kept saying, oh, Nellie, you've got to make arrangements. You've got to do, you've got to think about this. You've got to look after yourself, right? He was the guy who kept talking to me about it. He said, Nellie that's a great opportunity for you to go to New York. Did you perform in Europe, too? Oh yes. What kind of experience was that? Beautiful. Beautiful. I played all of them, they used to call them variety houses. This is like vaudeville. Vaudeville, yes, of course. Yes, well, they called it variety, you know, and it was a marvelous, marvelous experience because every week I was in a different city. I was over, the first time I went I think I did 12 weeks and within the same year I went back. No, I did 10 weeks. And the second time I went back and I did 12 weeks, which was three months. And it was just marvelous. As we go from city to city doing these concerts, you know, and the people were just absolutely fantastic. They turned out. Nellie, when your career went in decline, things got

quiet. How did you handle that? Well, I didn't, I didn't bother about it too much. I'm not saying, I don't mean to say that I was, you know, didn't need the money. Yes ma'am, right. I don't mean that at all. I had made a little investment in a little piece of property and at least I knew that I was going to be able to sleep. Yes. And I knew I was going to be able to eat. And I had this little piece of income property just 6 units and I live in one so you know you don't make, you never get rich off of nothing like that. But you didn't lose confidence in yourself? I didn't lose confidence in myself. And the trend was changing then. That's when the rock thing came into being in existence. And I'm not knocking the rock thing, but see there was an awful, awful lot of money put into the promotion of rock music. Did you ever try to switch? No. You did not. You stayed with Nellie Lutcher's music. I stayed with my music because that was one of the problems with the rock field. I find that too many people was sounding just alike. You didn't know who you were listening to.

How do you feel about your Louisiana roots? You live in Los Angeles now. You get home once in a while. How do you feel when you look back on Louisiana? I feel very proud, Gus. I'm very, very, very proud. I'm very proud of Louisiana, Lake Charles particularly, and Louisiana. Because all of my music for instance, the jazz music, I'll say, not just mine, but I'm saying the jazz medium, this is the music that the roots are here. You know, whatever music you heard Louis Armstrong and Oliver and all of these people who've gone on many years before... that the roots of jazz music is here and it was my own daddy and a man like Buck Johnson. They're roots were here. People today are, remember that and read about these people. So I'm just thrilled to know that I'm a part of this and my roots are deeply embedded in Louisiana. Nellie, what counsel would you give some young person watching us today who wanted to go into and try to do what Nellie Lutcher did? Well, I think the

first thing I'd say is to be an individual. Don't try to copy. Be inspired, but don't copy. That, that's my big advice. So many people, they take a record, many kids today they'll take a record and copy somebody else, you know. Yes. I heard, I heard a girl two weeks ago, Gus, at a benefit for one of our musicians in Los Angeles. Marvelous, marvelous, marvelous, marvelous lovely, sounded exactly like Sarah Vaughan. She sounded exactly. I've heard some folks sound like Nellie Lutcher. Well. So you must be used to being imitated...how does that make you feel when you're watching television and somebody's introduced as a great new find and all of a sudden you sit there and you're listening to a younger edition of Nellie Lutcher? Yeah, how does that make you feel? Proud, I guess. Well, I'm proud of it. However, I feel by myself like I felt about this particular girl that I'm telling you about. Yes. This happened two weeks ago and I sat there and one of my, my younger sister Margaret was with me and I said oh my God I said. She said, "Oh that girl is terrific." She said, "But doesn't she sound like Sarah

Vaughan to you?" And I said I'm just sitting here and I'm just amazed, you know. She had all of - everything - the phrasing and eveything like Sarah, she could handle her voice and still she's a great artist, still. Nellie, it's been wonderful having you with us and I think that I speak for all Louisianians. We're awfully proud of Nellie Lutcher and her very, your very great career and we wish you well in the days ahead. I think you've got some real good years left doing what you do better than anybody I know. Making people feel good. Thank you, Nellie. Bless you. Thank you very much, and don't forget the YMCA concert. Won't forget it. Thank you so much, Gus Weill. Thank you. Funding for the production of Louisiana Legends is provided in part by the Friends of

Louisiana Public Broadcasting and by Union National Life Insurance, a Louisiana company serving Louisiana and the South since 1926.