"Kinsey: Archives #1 & 2, Wylie, Campus, Bloomington Shots"

That I helped. You with this collection like everybody that he knew. I. Steered him toward dozens of people he was interested in. People in the theater for a while because he wanted to see if a certain theory of his about affection on the stage held up or not and he needed the personal histories of them. But he took histories from all sorts of special. Cases. Why did people do it all they all they all remember Kinsey was on Time magazine cover in those days and he was very famous and he was very in the know. So the very thought that this man might want to take your history was enough to. Make people go out of their way. To contribute. But. All of that largely came to an end because of this fame. In the end worked against him. It's true that the Institute for sex research made money off of two books

but their expenses by this time were very high and enemies both inside and outside the Rockefeller Foundation said oh well these people are so rich now we don't have to back them and anyway it's all a marvel. So we really should. Back away from that and there were outsiders who said well we ought to really investigate the Rockefeller Foundation because here they are giving public tax free funds to vacuum our reality and this sort of thing which led to the recent committee hearings all of this dried up the sources of income for the Institute. And he was so discouraged by. All the difficulties there was and finding new sources of money adds I think it contributed much weight to his physical downfall and then his death in 1956. In fact the last words in the hospital to his wife for

Mark said something to the effect of. Well you have to let other you have to take rest and step back from the work. And he said but if I do that who's going to take care of the next 20 years. Those were the last words I left up 50 things things in the downfall that I'll think you need those details. It's. A. Well-worn one rather alarming thing about the. Legacy of the Kinsey research is that while it is true that much of that work is still very valid very appropriate people have forgotten who he owes patients of mine as early as Nineteen

sixty five sixty eight had never even heard of Kenzie. These were people borrow who were 4 years old when he died of course but all of that went down the drain. While you have it in religion people excuse the harsh language. People tell the same lies over and over and keep the eye of the Holy Ghost alive and kicking. But there's nothing really to keep the ghost in science unless you can pass it along. The things that are really passed along are the superb articles that he did and findings that he had for instance in the paper called concepts of normality and abnormality. He just reviews the whole history of these concepts in a way which no modern researcher that I know could touch the quality of it and the thoroughness of it. His masterpiece on interviewing Nobody does that kind of interviewing anymore

but someday they will someday the quality will come by and there he is telling every move in the troubles you get into when you make certain kinds of moves and how to win the confidence of people. These are very valuable things. That chapter personal prediction. The chapter on the. Psychology of man and woman the differences between them I think will last a hundred years or more. Who in the world could ever master that material the way he did. So I'm think of all of. Us. Yes. Well you see in interviewing. If you use anything that's once

removed for instance the person being interviewed doesn't know who's asking the question because it's a questionnaire. You're having to write things down maybe maybe they'll check the fingerprints or who knows about the privacy outfit. There are little things that you pull back plus the fact you can do follow up questions. It's so useful to be able. To do follow up questions and to zoom in a special direction. If Kenzi heard that some man was into fatness and partners which is. Unusual but nevertheless pretty frequent. Preference he would immediately go to work on that. And where did that first come off. Was it the girl next door who was overweight and how did this get started. He was fascinated to follow up on

all these little details. And he opened up so many huge new fields are that of course we don't really know. Although Kinsey was the first who mentioned it. We don't know why a persons per forms will tend to escalate. If they are into S&M then they'll require and let's say they like to be whipped hard to do the one thing the men want to do more of it and want more. And then it should be tougher than it should be more. And eventually it gets to the point where it's almost life threatening. But all of the things us go late. The editors of Playboy magazine mention the fact that their audience is divided and leg man and breast man. People who are breast man don't just like breasts they want bigger breasts and bigger and bigger and bigger breasts. The homosexual who happens to be into. As not all of them are penis size. If that

happens to become important bigger the better and the more the better. And it keeps getting escalated and we don't know why it occurs. But it's interesting that it does occur. These were the trigger points that he you just to. To extend his interview. I think this will make you stop the use of the tape. I will quote you one little thing here I think which is so beautiful. This is from his interviewing chapter. On. Our sex laws and customs are so far removed from the actual behavior. Of the human animal. That there are few persons who can afford to let their full histories be known to the courts or even of their naval neighbors and their best friends.

How true. People can. Even today people can't really allow their total history to be known to their neighbors and their best friends because people might use it against them or laugh at them on make them feel more guilty than they already feel. Are. In some way. Take an edge over them. And of course people in the interview question her as they're on guard against this are going to fool you about that a mile off. He was right. If somebody were to ask him. Well are your neighbors friends really like you are they different. He would have said

instantly both people are spectacularly different and what they require are yeah. The things that they're require are are the things that are common to everybody. They're all headed as if the same Paradise through a different road and. Yet a way of making this. Clear to people. But you were. Our copper file or somebody who. Had something he was ashamed of and his sex life and set off to a little guilty about that he would turn on the money. Or you feel guilty if that's what you feel it's what you feel. I mean he wouldn't bawl them out and I'm nice but. Of course there are more psychotherapy than a psycho therapist could do and years.

All he had the most remarkable thing. We had. Think of that only when you're in line drive. He had had an unusual way of approaching everything. So if you when he came to the theater which was fascinated with and with actors he was already fascinated. The most dynamic actors sometimes had the most sex lives. And one would find this kind of contrast but that's no surprise one hears of that all the time. What was a surprise is that. He could look at the performance of the person on stage which he got where he would do he would go see the actor before he interviewed them and predict life. And he had

a breathtakingly good perception of that. For instance. He he could tell immediately whether the actor actors enjoyed kissing each other. Some directors said to him well but anybody can tell who either of partners are interested in history. It's the difference between the real thing and the robbery whole thing. Yes but those that are that are interested there's still a difference if they're really turned on the angle of the wrist will be different the angle of the fingers as it goes around their back will be different. It will communicate itself and a hundred little ways can't before. And he used this and in painting and sculpture which he would show. The person's real response. Well I won't try to tell the story on the Rubens I don't remember closely. Robbins made his living

painting very fat women but wasn't turned on blood. So you predicted what he was turned on by and somebody showed up with the real. Private Part or refused to prove the point. Remember that Kinsey could interview 6. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9. Can. I do that. Right.

I can't say enough why. Right.