American Experience; Freedom Riders; Interview with Sangernetta Gilbert Bush, 1 of 2

[Interviewer]: Okay, we're back there in in 1961, and uh- when, what did you hear about the freedom riders coming to town, remembeber? [Bush]: Yes, Um I was told that the freedom riders were to come in to Montgomery on that Saturday morning. Uh a friend of my father's, from Alabama State University, uh stopped by our home; we had a direct path to Alabama State, we lived on South Jackson Street. And um, he stopped to tell my father that the freedom riders had arrived at the bus station. And I was sitting on the porch, because I had to come into Montgomery; I was living at out of town at that time, in Huntsville, Alabama, and and I had had a little problem because I was pregnant and I had the confidence of the doctor here, in Montgomery, so I came back home. And I wanted to go, but they didn't want me to go because I was threatening to

lose the baby. But I went anyway. I got in the car with my father, and- [Interviewer]: [inaudible] They were coming to town. Ya know, did you, you knew something about the freedom riders. What did you know about the freedom riders before that date? You know what I mean? So if you're, if you're, if somebody comes and tells you you're father's friend, friend of the family comes ?and says? "freedom riders are coming to town." Did you say, "What are the freedom riders?" No, you knew what they were. Right? What did you know about the freedom riders before that Saturday? [Bush]: I knew that they were testing. [Interviewer]: Okay, we don't have to. [Bush]: Okay. Okay, I don't go there? [Interviewer]: Yeah, I don't think that ?inaudible? um ?inaudible? when the freedom riders came you're downtown. What happened? [Bush]: I was downt- I was at the ?Moore? building in front of the Greyhound bus station and the

bus arrived and the student- uh. Can I say that over? Hold on one second. [Bush]: I was downtown. [Interviewer]: Okay hold on. you know what, I really think you should put your glasses on. So you know, you hear freedom riders are coming to town umm why did you want to go downtown? [Bush]: Because I had heard what had happened in Anniston, Alabama and I wanted to see the freedom riders; I wanted to see them for myself - the brave young men and women. [Interviewer]: Weren't you scared for yourself to go down there and see them? [Bush]: No, I was not; I had no fear. None whatsoever. [Interviewer] okay, if you can be more expansive, give me a little bit longer answer, it would help. [Bush]: The reason I was not afraid because I had encountered a lot of um cattle

proding, and beatings and things of this nature from 19 55 when the bus boycott first started. So really no, I was not afraid. [Interviewer]: Um, you went downtown. Tell me uhm, when do you, what do you remember from the bus rollin' in. And again, give me as much strength as you can. What do you remember? [Bush]: I remember being um sheltered in the doorway of the Moore building, which is across the street from the bus station. And I remember that students being taken off of the bus by white citizens uh of Montgomery ?men? and white citizens from Montgomery. And I remember the fact that they had baseball bats and wrought, long wrought ?iron? pipes. And the fact that one of the young white men, that was pulled

from the bus, was uh beaten severely. Uh two white uh men pulled his legs, turned him upside down, pulled his legs apart and beat him in his groin with the baseball bat. That's my-, that's the greatest memory I have of that day. [Interviewer]: And you're standing there and you seein' all this, right? What were you thinking, what? [Bush]: I felt helpless, because it was nothing I could do. Uh, the uh people around me were crying; I was crying. And we know that there was police protection - supposed to be police protection there. And uh they were not helping the freedom riders at all. They just stood there and watched as these young students were beaten. Now I saw one special beating; I'll call it "special beating."

The others were on the other side of the bus, I was not able to see everyone being beaten or being pulled out of the bus. But that one young man stood out in my memory. [Interviewer]: And you saw I think you say you could see the people's feet and stuff under the bus? [Bush]: Yes. [Interviewer]: Talk about that. [Bush]: From where I was standing, uh the bus was like directly in front of the doorway, and I could see the shadow, under the bus and i could see them being dragged, around to the front of the bus. ?inaudible? [Interviewer]: Tell me what you saw under the bus. [Bush]: I saw shadows of people under the bus, being drug off of the bus. You could see basically, you could see some of the students still on the

bus from; let's stop that cause that's not, I'm not saying that. Oh camera full? [Interviewer]: Go ahead I could see just like under the doorway you could see shadows but you can't make out anyone in particular. And I saw the shadow of the students being drug off of the bus. Now one young man in particular, a white student, was brought in front of the bus and that is where I saw him being beaten in his private part with the baseball bat. And, oh I don'- I don't know what ?inaudible? I tell it in the way that you want it. I'm not telling it right, am I? [Interviewer]: You're telling it, if that's your story, do you feel like you're telling it right? Is there something ?inaudible?

long as you want. Tell me what happened. You can start over; I don't know anything about it. What did you see? [Bush]: Standing in the doorway of the Moore building, with the bus directly in front of me, I could see shadows beneath the bus, I could also see students trying to get off the bus through the windows of the bus. One young man in particular was pulled in front of the bus, held by two white men. They turned him upside down, they stretched his legs apart and they beat him with a baseball bat. [Interviewer]: Where? [Bush]: In his groin. I was afraid, people around me were afraid. Uh, we were crying but it was nothing that we could do about it; we knew that there that protection was supposed to be

there from the police department for the city of Montgomery. But they did nothing to help. Uh, we were told uh that they were members, that the white men were members of the white citizens council. But I could not verify that. But this is what we were told. [Interviewer]: Where were the police? [Bush]: The police were standing there in their uniforms, just looking. They attempted, they made no attempt to stop the beating. And beatings were going on all around the bus, but that is the main one that I saw. [Interviewer]: Now when you say people were crying and ?inaudible?- describe that. So you were in a crowd of black people, is that what was going on? So tell me that and what they were saying and what they were feeling. [Bush]: They were moaning. [Interviewer]: ?inaudible? [Bush]: I was in the doorway and we, everybody basically were crying

but the people in the doorway were moaning and they were groaning and they were praying, uhh for the safety of the freedom writers. Uh with every blow that this young man received, we, we felt that we felt that blow. And uh i've been looking for him ever since I don't know his name and I've asked all of the freedom riders uh that have been to Montgomery that have been able to talk to who he was but I still haven't met him. Personally I've liked to really meet him. But it was just a sad day. It was nothing that you could do, you're helpless. [Interviewer] Stop for a second. [Different speaker]: yes. [Bush]: there were the crowd that they were

basically black people. The only whites that were there were part of, were the freedom riders the citizen council, the white citizen council and the police. I was standing in the doorway with a group of black, some elderly, some young black people that were very that was just horrified at the way in which the freedom riders were treated. They were moaning, they were crying, they were praying, we all were for the safety of those students. [Interviewer]: Talk about the feeling. I mean you must have been feeling helpless and everybody ?inaudible? because you must of wanted to run out there and help. Why didn't you run out and help? well I was ill for one reason, I really should not have been there because of the threat of losing my child, but um

I did, I- I wanted to help but I couldn't help. Uhh others wanted to help, but the but prayer was more I think, prayer was more important to them right now because what can you do against baseball bats and iron pipes. It was really nothing that you could do and those who, we had no weapons. We were just people standing, feeling say it for what was happening to those different Were you surprised at all by by by the uh violence of ?inaudible? you know and the, the evil of what what you were witnessing I was surprised because we had no idea it would turn into something this drastic. We thought that the freedom riders would enter the city get off the bus and then get back on and probably a

little booing about their skin but nothing so drastic. We had no idea it would have been like that. But, and they I don't think the students did either but they hit just uhh witnessed uh or had an encounter with the burning of the bus in Anniston so oh but I still, I still don't think they felt like it was going to be that bad in Montgomery. [Interviewer]: Why didn't the police do anything? [Bush]: Today I really don't know. I really don't know. [Interviewer]: Can we stop for a second. [Bush]: Th- the, the the police were there for protection but they provided no protection. Let's say it like that. They provided no protection for those students. [Interviewer]: Mhm that must have been a

frightening thing to see. [Bush]: It was and for many of nights, I had nightmares because I kept seeing the same thing over and over again. So it was, it was horrible to see. [Interviewer]: One of the things that that I think too, you know when I think about it is, as you and this is your community, you know what I mean and and so it's extra special. I mean you know I was a young kid there, I saw it on tv but it was like oh my God what they doing but these we are not your friends but we doing the beatings but they were in some ways your neighbors. They were, they were people um you know that that you know are on the streets every day with you. How'd that feel? [Busch]: Umm no one want, no one would like to see

their sister or brother or father or neighbor treat it in that manner and we all, we did not we weren't separate. We were together as a community no matter where the people came to help uh without problem here in Montgomery. They were coming to help us so we felt like they were all our sisters and brothers and I did not feel that my sister or brother should be treated that way. [Interviewer]: Umm you, you said that that that you actually recognized one of the attackers and other people in the crowd recognized you. You know one of the attackers ? inaudible? How'd that feel? Tell me about that, so you see this beating and then you see this guy [Bush]: Yes, Um I didn't know the, I'd heard the name but I never put the name with the face but the crowd began to call out one

of the beater's name and he didn't seem to care he just kept beating. [Interviewer]: What do you mean they called out his name? They said, "Hey! there's Joe Davis hey man, how are you doing?" What'd they do. [Bush]: They kept saying it's ?Son Macau? Livingston ?Son Macau? Livingston and uh, I didn't know who ?Son Macau? Livingston was, but that was the man that was doing the beating with [Interviewer]:Did the crowd think that if they called his name, that you know they would kind of out him? Maybe he would stop if they said his name. Is that why they were calling his name, I don't get it. [Bush]: I really think that they were trying to indentify because they'd heard so many things that had happened that he had done in the city. So they were tryna to let everyone know who he was but I did not know, I just heard the name. That it was, it was him. [Interviewer] ?inaudible? And give me some energy here and look right at me. [Bush]: Okay. [Interviewer]: Okay.

[Bush]: To travel, be it, uh rode on the bus or on the train, you had to take the little greasy shoe box that had the chicken and the fried chicken because it was no place for us to eat. You couldn't go to the dining car, anything like that and if you stopped, uh if you on a bus and the bus stopped to pick up passengers, you were not able to get off the bus. One personal thing, my father traveled quite a bit and he was so tired he had driven all the way from Washington DC, all the way to Tuskegee. And he just wanted a cup of coffee to make it to Montgomery and he had to go around the back of the cafe, to get a cup of coffee and then they told them sorry but we don't serve ni****

and just, pushed him out the door that really hurt me, I will remember that the rest of my life So talk about how it felt to travel and you know you had to carry your own food, you couldn't use the bathroom, how was it for black people to travel back then. Was it fun? [Bush]: Well really you made your own life. Uh we know that we couldn't stop. We know that if you uh you had to drive maybe 12 straight hours you would have a driver there with you because you couldn't stop at a hotel, or motel anything like that. you couldn't eat so you had enough food. You made a way. You made it comfortable for your family in order to travel so because we weren't used to it. [Interviewer]: Talk about, I want I want to stop for a second here. I just want-. Long bus trip

[Interviewer]: Roll [Bush]: I uh I, stop. [Interviewer]: Cut. [Bush]: There was no mental preparation to [Interviewer]: Roll. [Bush]: Oh. There was no mental preparation for getting on the bus it was normality. Normal. You were going, you know how long you're going to travel. You prepare to travel, you prepare your food so that, because you know that you're not going to stop if you're on a bus or a car you have someone to take over driving. You, now and you would not drink anything because you gonna have to stop on the road and if you stop on the road to relieve yourself, you might get picked up, you might get arrested. So you prepared for that you didn't drink. You just ate. You had partners

to drive with. So there's nothing really to prepare for, it was just normal ?inaudible? you want me to say because but that was just the way it was. Listen, whats normal for you now? What's normal for us? We didn't know any better. So i can't say that and and I was not angry, I was not angry until I was able until I saw my brothers and my sisters being beaten but before that it was just a way of life. You get up, you go to school, you go to work. You don't go to this store, you don't go to this restaurant. That was just a way of life and right now I can't feel anything for Obama.

I don't have any feelings what so ever. [Interviewer]: Wait a minute! [Bush]: No I do not! [Interviewer]: Cut! our own