Utah Conversations; Mike Dmitrich

He was only 31 years old when he moved from carbon county's coal mines to serve for 41 years in Utah's legislature first in the house then the Senate and as minority leader in both bodies. Now he says it's time for other things and won't seek re-election this fall. A conversation with Mike them a trick next. Mike DU matrix served in the house for over two decades before moving on to the Senate a total of eighteen hundred days of legislative sessions plus many days and hours for special sessions campaigns and for other duties. Senator Dimitri thank you for being here 41 years is a long time why do you decide to hang them up. Well it's always my pleasure to be with you tonight 40 years you know the record of forty two. Yeah yeah. I really didn't want to run again. Number one I spend more time with

family but married 50 years and I thought maybe a big of his last 20 or 30 to my wife. You've got that many left. Yeah but I hope so too but I didn't I didn't want to spend another summer campaign and at this age you run out of somewhere so yeah I thought rather than travel at three a 600 mile round trip on the makes going to happen and with all those places. The best to turn it over to that new Youngblood is your district your senate district which you have represented now for many years. The largest one in the state of Utah the largest district. It's about 26 percent of the landmass Utah has it as a hit. It's probably comparable to the Senate seat to Senator Peterson has and the north. Well he says with the fight and Oh has he if I OK OK OK I think the six or seven counties and I have five counties. So you would have won if you'd run again wouldn't you. Well you know when the fairs have to have been over this long with one of my big fairs of the

last what a terrible way. So you'd rather quit on top. I'd rather quit while you can say I've never been beaten. But you would have won right. I would think so I never got into the thing about him think I could when I thought OK well I'm going to talk to you about the things you've gotten into but 40 years 40 years you're only 31 years old when you went there. Was it. A pleasant 40 years was a terrible what's a lie. Well it was actually a pleasant 40 years the most memorable things you have coming out of a legislature is the people you associate so shit with both sides of the aisle. So my very dear friends are very good Republicans you know Norm banger Nolan carousel you go on and on. Yeah. And I lost my very close friend at Manus last year so it's a people we associate with that makes legislative experience an experience. Yeah yeah. What. Have been your major accomplishments do you think. Well you know that is really hard to point to one of the things I really think back about

think there's a great deal as I had an individual from East carbon who custom builds cars there was a law you can have lower solo solo. He came to me with and I solicit wing Passat So we got that thing that law passed worked with the Department of Public Safety. And one little individual from these carbon neutral who is now a very famous to rebuilding cars. His name is Bo huff and I'm really proud of that. But there are several things in all the college of East New Tosca very close to my heart. We have several buildings down are one I have been fortunate to have my name on along with Sunder bottles so it's called the be the accent of the Bunnell the matrix Athletic Center. So there is a lot of things that you could go back and look at but the most rewarding thing you ever get out of a legislative experience is to help individual people you know have to help the less fortunate. Have you done that well do you think. Well I'd like to think I have helped the less fortunate. But the Democrats have been nice you know better than anyone in the minority for quite a few years now.

Oh but four years of my 40. All but four years if you're 40 we had four years where ways and in the majority when I was in the house and only one time we controlled both houses. I've had the fortune experience of serving with six governors math and rep in there. And we have come total control of just two years of that time that I was in the house which was twenty two years now. Was there a big difference. Can you remember back to then. Yes you know I really think the best legislation that came out of the Utah legislature is when you had a different house make up like the Democrats controlled the House and Republicans control the Senate Democratic governor and vice versa the Senate control and so forth and I think that was a real term of compromise legislation. Yeah. So now with the total control we as a minority party just hope to pick up a few of the scraps. Well only what eight Democrats in the Senate at this point eight of the 20

29 in the Senate and the percentage in the house is probably less it's 20 I think. Yeah. Is that good legislatively is that good for the people to have such a heavily heavily weighted party whether Republican or Democrat. I would think not. I would think that if the balance you know and we've Democrats been Tanit for a long time we need but more balance yeah if you have more balance I think would be better for both parties. I think the Republicans the majority party now which is a very heavy balance you know really have internal problems that they would not have with closer balance. Yeah. Is it fair to ask you who your favorite governor was has been. Well I you know and I was anticipating that question OK OK actually the ramp in the math and we're obviously the favorite Rampton took over during a crisis. You know he had to raise taxes and so forth. But then when you go into the Republican side norm buying it or took the state over absolute worst time and him and I worked very closely and he would have to go down as one

of my favorites along with Rampton Yeah yeah. In today's. A political climate would Governor Bangor have been categorized as moderate. I think Governor banger of been moderate that is seen I think you'd have seen a more hands on approach with the legislature which he did have a very heavily have that. Yeah he unwrapped and made many appearances on that third floor. Oh dictator Yeah. The prison governors that you know they don't come out of there after Madison and very seldom came up there really really. Norm would come up and really twist what he and them then Rampton would come into our caucus isn't really a lot and was very specific what he wanted and if you opposed him. He would remember that really sounds like Lyndon Johnson. Yeah well baby Rampton was a heck of a guy you know. He pushed and pushed when he won and some one comes to my mind and this goes back in the early 70s a land use planning for the state you thought we had on the ballot. Yeah yeah. And a couple of our Democrats opposed that and they never got off the

hook. Well in his mind really. Yeah but was Bangor that banger was very strong armed it you know he was a he was very competitive. We used to have our legislative basketball games and him and I'd really go at it when we were both a lot younger. Yeah but he's very competitive and. Yeah he had some strong memories. There was one occasion over the location of the prison and the carbon was vying for and sappy County ended up with I think Janice you know and I called Ready For You which it was a Democrat chairman I said ready let's not let him get away that I was out of time I was in Montana on business. Let's listen norm get away with that boy Randy blast him only the way of Randy or your last Yeah well him and Norma never been close. Well. What attracted you to politics what you know. Interesting question the you know the sheriff's battles in the little small cottage the big battles when my

very closest friends was well past. Yeah and he had a close run and he says once you come a bit delicate and you know I never was involved and so I became a delegate to support passage. I'll pass it for the sheriff's office. In the meantime owner caught on to me that be in there and he says well why don't you round the house. And I told Omar I said I have no experience I don't know how to get elected I have not been in the Capitol which was a true story. He said I'll get you elected. And which he did on our bond we are going to 1968 Yeah yeah and then he wanted me to take his seat in the Senate you know and I kept waiting it out and whatnot I don't think it was ever going to happen that's maybe why I stayed there so long and plus I was unopposed in Austell several terms. So unfortunately he got sick and got appointed. Yeah I remember that. And he was a car dealer in Brize he was a great guy. Yeah you talk about true Democrats there was a guy that's probably on the wealthy side financially and he was a true Democrat he just believed. That the rich were getting off without paying a proper amount of taxes not poor getting taken in the moderate middle class.

Do you believe that I believe that and it's still that way today. Hopefully this new flat tax will remedy that little bit I'm one Democrat thinks it will Several don't think it will but. I think the flex test will remedy that equality among tax people. Well what then is you sort of said this already you're answered this but in your mind in today's world and today's legislature in today's Congress what is the difference between a Republican and a Democrat. You know just put in a basically I think Democrats believe more in people Republicans believe more in corporations. You know more leaning that way. I think that there is a certain group of Republicans that really are moderate who really take think that we have some concerns with our less fortunate people our social service people and so forth. You know. Well but the legislature the Republicans

are often labeled. As very ultra right wing conservatives. Is that more the case now than it was you look back 20 years and if so why. When I look back to my first term in the house we had one person in the house. Representative from from Logan Yeah who was very conservative very right wing only one. And as the years progressed that became more and more. The case I think the reason for that is maybe some of the social programs that the Democrats are exposed. Yeah and the fact that that we believe that all people are welcome of the society in this world. Think of pushing that way and then too much government interference. But lately there's been more government interference in our lives and there has never been I think before. Mike before you and I call you Mike I've known Mike for hers you know everybody called me mike on Capitol Hill that day. Yeah well you're still in it or the only time I ever use sender is

when they put me on hold when I was called a government agency. That's OK Mike. You were a minor early on in your life. It was an underground miner for over three years and my father got killed on an opposite shift so I thought I'd better try something else. Yeah so I'm banking for 13 years and then I figured well better make a living so I'm back in the mining business so I've been involved in mining for the for over 30 years. Yeah. I was not a ground miner then I did government affairs and at one time I used to go online every day taking visitors. People from Japan who are buying our coal at that time and from Taiwan. Just almost weekly I took groups of them through the mine. Yeah you were underground for three years. Your father was killed as an underground miner in a mine collapse. It was actually a bounce very some of the recent credit what it was it was a major buyouts at Kaiser still mine and Sunnyside Yeah and there was three of them killed that covered up the same time and then you decided to get out. Then I decided well I lost a grandpa on being in

Kenya where I was going to ask you to go I had lost a Grammy being in Kenya lost a father and I thought maybe I should do something else. And then I got out and I worked in a bank for like 13 years. Yeah I decided that I was cashing checks for those guys I used to work with and I thought well maybe I should go back to be working in the mining industry. Socceroo and what you did for a long time but is mining underground mining now any less safe than it was when you were underground. I think it's a lot safer and not save a lot safer now. There's a lot more restrictions government restrictions that's been put in place. We one time when I was a young man at the time. We said the only air we had took in our lunch bucket. Yeah but it's a lot safer and there are a lot more. They recognize tragedies and safety concerns a lot more now than they ever have is the Mine Safety and Health Administration. Going to come up with in your opinion a true kind of a report on the Crandall Canyon disaster I

think it will be true unfortunately that what happened at Crandall is never we never did that in Utah mining his mine barrier pillars barrier pillars as the fear they were there for ever and for some reason they approved mining those barrier pillars and I think that will come out in the report. Didn't you introduce legislation to create some safety measures at state level. Yeah I served on the governor's taskforce on mine safety. In fact Scott Matheson was chairman of a sort of local Senator Jake Garn. Yeah you know your pick well and Mayor Gordon. But is that going to amount to anything. Well we passed a bill that will create a mine inspector job. Yeah. Rather than having dual enforcement and I was not a believer in dual Forsman you know you heard the term two eyes are better than one. Yeah. I'm not so sure if you had two eyes or they'd be pointing fingers at each other in my opinion OK. The intent of this mine inspector is to lay as between MCO Mine Safety and Health Administration Yeah. The miners themselves and the management

and tried to prohibit it. Any any more safety violations and we have to try to work with them and I think it will work with the if we get the right guy in place to do that. To visit a mind on a daily basis a different mine. Yeah yeah and spent time working with the with the miners themselves. And if there are some violations of that that are going over management doesn't look at them. Hopefully this individual be able to take care of that and so we can stop some of this stuff. What is the future for the coal industry in Utah in Carbon County. I think in spite of all the concerns about global warming and carbon Westray yell at I think our emission controls are getting more and more of our power plants. I think it's ridiculous when Governor sorts nager said he wouldn't take power produced by coal fired power plants. Yeah I think if we have a few brown outs are just not going to be enough power generated to meet our demands in the future. The coal was it. Coal is the gold of producing power and our country.

You know Mike you were you're an athlete you you played all kinds of sports a Carbon County High. And then you went to Utah State to play football on a scholarship. Yeah I was very proud of that. Yeah. Before freshman picked for full scholarships I was one of the four and I was very proud of that this year and then I had to get hurt in the spring game and was asked to sit out by a year without playing a dislocated shoulder Yeah. So rather than do that I thought well go work in a mine for your two and for that year and makes money to go back to school and then I thought you didn't go back. How can you beat that. Money is making him a moron. Yeah but you you follow the very famous athlete at Utah State. I'm very proud of telling that story. I tell my freshman year of Lavelle Edwards has just graduated from Utah State for I had his number in college and I tell everyone I got his number before he was famous. Fact I tell him that he laughs about it. Yeah yeah.

But you also were referee in both football and basketball for years and years and years. Close to 30 years. Yeah. In fact they didn't have very many referees in them days and they used to schedule basketball games like South America North America. Both have high schools. Yeah and we do a South Korea game at 6 o'clock at night in the north are a game of 8 o'clock so we do two games a night sometimes because there wasn't anybody want to referee in those days and I can see why because it's rock as it were. That was the local few of a gathering point for all the people because there wasn't that much TV in those times. Well and if you blew the whistle at the wrong time you could have disharmony between the local school we've been chased the car. We've had rocks thrown as a basketball one time was kicked and when my fellow referees right in the face and he thought it was a coach and I'm trying to back him off as it's not the coaches that lady over there. Hope which was most fun to ref the basketball or football basketball

probably was because you got more involved in the game you're like a player basically you know football you could kind of dog it a little bit because it's a little a lot slower. Yeah. And you're one back close to the people here basketball people right on top. I could write a book about my basketball for an experiment. The issue that would be fine. And speaking of basketball and I have to ask you this you may not like me too. You have sat on the front row of the Jazz games a couple of times over the years for which you've always gotten your name in the paper saying that. That you were taken there by some lobbyist. That's correct in fact that came about Senator Hatch and I are very good friends. Yeah he's always sits in that seat and one time I mentioned to him was Boy I'd sure like go to the game with him some night he said I'll arrange it so I ended up going with it sitting there and every year and I am unfortunately this past session I promised my wife I would go to a basketball game so I get the name of the paper ball in the basket. Yeah and I really missed it because I miss it. Bill Johnson is a friend of mine in fact I refereed when Phil was coach and Weaver. You didn't go to any game that I

didn't go to any idea that not room and and I joke about it but the let's let you went a lot smoother because I didn't go to his games as well I'm the broad issue though in all seriousness. On the broader issue of ethics reform for the legislature what do you think about that. He you know that's a very fair question too and I've always said as long as I can look myself in the face and figure I did nothing wrong. I think that's my ethics standards to the general public I don't fly over well my constituents never got on me about going to a Jazz game. Yeah. But I can see where the public concern about there is times when I don't know who's taken I went to the game with. Yeah I would do a lot like airlines I'd upgrade if I had a higher seat for the next guy offer me one a little lower I'd take the lower one give the other one back. Yeah but I I don't think it's ways you know I in fact I have a rule I would not go to a bad jazz game with a lobbyist if he was going to lobby me because you want talk business come up 7:00 in the morning 7:00 at night I'll spend all of

time you want with it. But what we did I think in the legislature by creating more ethnic control is just saying that maybe we are dishonest maybe we better place ourselves and I think it creates a feeding frenzy for the press. You know we changed last year we changed the law that a lobbyist have reported for three months. Well the press is waiting every three months to see who's who they spend the money on. They're going to be disappointed because I don't have a reportable incident on this or this report as you noted. I want the top to zero. Well oh well. Did lobbyists twist your arm or they buy you lunch or take you to a game or something though that does that have any impact you say it wouldn't on you. But do you think it does generally. I don't think so I think you know I think what you're really doing you know the way our legislature functions there is they're elect this year there was over a thousand bills introduced. We passed 400. There is not an individual up there is bright enough to know what's in all 400 of those

bills. I think the lobbyists serve a very useful purpose whether pro or con and tell you exactly what that piece of legislation does and then you weigh it from there. I can honestly say I don't know of a legislature who bend over backwards for a lobbyist we get accused of. Yeah don't get me wrong but it's there's a couple in fact the lobbyist that used to get those front row seats when I very seldom voted what he wanted. There were still very close friends. You know what your opinion of Governor Huntsman. The Governor Huntsman is a very neat guy. You know he's very smooth. Yeah just as personable as can be. This last session I was kind of disappointed in him because he did not veto that Senate bill to that education bill that had all the different things it had like 13 different bills some of which were been defeated. Yeah. And it was one that it's a very unique way of funding education. Yeah. Because either vote for the whole thing or he will for nothing. And I think that that's setting a bad precedent for future legislatures. You've been a strong advocate for education both public education higher

education. Our projections are that the number of school children is going to increase enormously in the next couple of decades. How is the state going to be able to afford a quality education in the public system. You know one of the things we did as a legislature and I've always opposed We always have a fixed rate. Which is the rate that you can charge on your property tax to local governments. That thing is deteriorated year by year it's when every year they my one time used to be like 3 0 0 4. Now it's 3 0 0 1. It's taken over a million dollars out of education annually. And I think we as taxpayers wrote not notice that amount on our property tax but property tax so hated but somewhere along the line we got a level out with that fixed rate will be. So that we can have more of a fixed rate on our property taxes which is unpopular as a strong move it would do away with property property tax but yeah I think to really stabilize education we have to have a strong property

tax base to start with then the income tax is dedicated by our Constitution to go to education you know as long as our income tax is heavy like it has been in the last four or five years we've had surpluses you know it's been great for education you know. You know and in the meantime the property tax went down when you get down the downturn in the economy which we had four years ago and by. Then you see some problems develop. You know the Republicans have come under some editorial fire for their close caucuses. Not only recently but historically you don't hold close caucuses for the Democrats you wouldn't have enough to fill this table. We we've always I don't. COX Yeah but but I think you know I got to give credit to the Republican Party if you're there responsible for setting a budget. There's sometimes they have to make smaller decisions and I think if we ever had control and I was the leader I would close the cuts yes we make those decisions. There are some you just can't do You can't be honest with yourself. If you're having all the press around everybody sitting around I think there's

times when you have to have a close caucus I don't think every caucus should be closed. But I think there's times and you don't take a vote but you gotta get some points across and have everybody talk openly about it which they probably wouldn't do if it was open everywhere. Then what do we just have a couple minutes live what is your analysis over these 40 years of the press and the press is coverage. Well that's one of the things that I think has really changed through the legislative process is the press is more evident than ever and then I go to an ad and I think well I don't think it's real good. I think it's good as long as they do the reporting on on the legislative legislative issues of their. But when they get into total ethics among individuals and obviously I've been criticized in the press I think they go too far sometimes and I fear I have as yet not going to get good individuals from what the legislature because they don't they don't want to have their backgrounds exposed or if they go to a Jazz game or go to a golf game. And you know I know that looks bad and I can say what I want now because I'm not running.

Well you may have to go off your house your golf game. Well I you know one thing about golf says you can play more golf now you're going to quit now so there is no way I could play anymore. Well well you have all those meetings of the legislature and all those days in session you can't play golf then. Well I'd be on the ski playing on the winter golf a lot of it working. Oh OK you know like they're all revolving door goals I may still spend a little time in the legislature. I didn't ask you about your wife and your kids but my wife is doing very well that she is probably happier than anybody that I've decided not to run again she's been very loyal about this yeah. In fact she said maybe we should go get married again. You're home again and you have two children I have three children two daughters and a son I have a daughter live in Salt Lake My son lives in Pleasant Grove. Only two Democrats in Pleasant Grove otherwise my son is well OK and then I have a daughter who lives in Henderson Nevada who is a heck of a golfer and they're all doing well. They're all doing well. Mike thank you. Good luck to you. Well I appreciate I always appreciate being with you

Ted and it's always been a pleasure and we'll see each other again I'm sure we will thanks Mike. She has spent 23 years in public service and now is the chief operating officer of the Salt Lake Chamber of Commerce. She is playing a significant role in the downtown rising project. She believes that feminine values available to both men and women can make the world a better place. A conversation with Natalie Gardner next time.