1973 Watergate Hearings; 1973-08-01; Part 3 of 7

the pick you touched upon my next observation and a question from the testimony that we have had a little intimidated mr mitchell spent a great deal of time following his resignation they're working on that now all of the meetings but the regular meetings as i recall will also called who is the top people that work on the campaign and there's also the appearance that while he wasn't campaign director anne and it perhaps trying to his name it was not very much between the responsibility

that one feels secure conscientious man if you were responsible executive officer of an organization i'm responsible for the operation to be so available to the organization to be of whatever help that you can on your time available when you take on a job as a campaign manager and i'm sure your campaign managers have the same responsibility you take on a twenty four hour seven daily job and a new work on that basis and you that's one of the problems of a political life is is that he was pretty much any other responsibilities and any other demands on your time especially during the period of the campaign and that was the problem at that vigil space total demand of the responsibility of managing a campaign versus the really

sober man but still continuing opportunity to protest and envy about what a really good following this is we have a responsibility in his conversations with you were there any discussion to your knowledge of the law as riggin absolutely not john dean were directly under you know straightaway yes substantively work under other people depending on the nature of that particular testing this tv report you regulate those

willing to report to you on pretty important to keep you and thought no nonsense and it matters because they do a report to the person responsible for it's a statement that the president at some time during the meeting and i'm paraphrasing now i'm impressed with your knowledge about this what we're doing that i think you are everything counted on and you were calling i think they do but i think it was in that meeting and i do recall at the suggestion that the issue and i remember as

a child that if he had a prize the president of all the details about what the huge army knew at that particular time or a candy talks mitchell's office holiday plans that's all i really do but i think that as the president hadn't himself on a number of occasions and i saw by others was not talking in terms of trying to rethink that on each of these possible problem areas of the stadium laid out for which have to be dealt with but rather obliquely gathered on that the non involvement with a white house with <unk> head

again we have far and jewish or a cabinet that there had been there was still continuing investigation and that it still did not show any any white house involvement in the lobby and to to provide that assurance that was that was one of the areas that not just the cabinet that the president one of the people understand at that point i don't believe there was no certainty as to what the problems were the reelection committee there was a certain outside and there were also do i don't believe that the president and the that ms vivian ruth after

years anyway the point of the matter was was there any discussion of that meeting i just referred to were any other him around this time about having john mitchell stuff on a turn with news i'm ike to use this to them take the rapper wannabe i don't think at that time there was only the second week in april a developing view on john bins and jonathan's art as they were getting additional information from various people that there was a real possibility at least going in their minds that john mitchell had been aware of the watergate break in and so forth and that if that were the case and if he would decide to say so that would be a major step in and opening up the problems of of what really happened in the watergate tapes

it was not discussed in terms of scapegoat is the more or someone taking the rap that was discussed and it was not discussed in terms of putting pressure on mr mitchell to do this it was discussed in the terms of that if this were the case and if that happened that would certainly be a major step in the direction of trying to do so and that unfortunately now as it gets talked about kids this boy begins because as has happened in the history of america and erica process something that one person says something somebody else told him that someone else thought becomes a statement of fact by the party testifying at the time here and that that is unfortunate but i don't republican and yet the only thing that happened in that the time of the march twenty first meeting that would in any way relate to the point that you're raising was the incident that i

recall at activating that a recount is happening before the meeting and for some reason i have physical picture of this we were standing on the top of the steps of the video of the job the night after the meeting down the steps and frustrating and surveys because nobody else is going to be hard my full disclosure process but the problem is the question of what it does to it was a necessity an annual meeting unfortunately yes

and unravel all of it not right that was i believe the essence of john adams meeting with mr vigil on april fourteen i was allowed to play nineteen sixty two nixon campaign we're going to pause briefly on televisions coverage of the senate watergate hearings will continue after this break for station identification on average coverage of these hearings is provided as a public service of the member stations of pbs for public broadcasting service the the

pay question and that continues its coverage of hearings by the senate

select committee on presidential campaign activities you again correspondent jim lehrer picking up the testimony again center in a way is asking the questions mr holman of the other than cider and a court in the united states will equal or on ethical campaign activities i'm not sure what's it mean senator my name was was that included all i was not a defendant and eight send relating to the nineteen fifty two to nineteen sixty two campaign for governor in california and a judge in london on november the second nineteen sixty four report that site you and others say

okay i'm not really political campaign activity didn't join you using such tactics again in the cases the book it was not so i have not seen that judgment as the press references to that but that said that i was i guess it was the correct time as having had knowledge of the area in a matter that was was under under discussion a rubber comes under fire on september fifth of nineteen sixty three you gave a deposition and california if i may i'd like to read russians amass as usual reviewers exhibit at the post couple witnessed a mix of us and no i don't think so i

think again i posted them on the fact that we're going into the spotlight on the same places that i did with weinberger and martin which would have been my practice again this kind of a question as you go and the contents of that even purple and so perhaps in general terms not on any specific basis i don't no question they're just joined the back and say i don't think so question how many conversations with them i'm sure only one a nineteen sixty four a deposition was taken out mostly on a baxter i'd leave you as you train by organization to cairo public relations activities an investigation question that this conversation with nixon and

los angeles to replace approximately on august one nineteen sixty two when what your next meeting with mr nixon concerning the campaign and so i don't think i have another meeting with him until i went or were the copy with him and witnessed horrible no question about one thing was and saw the siege that classified all about in the same time i'm very concentrated and they always as i recall all these meetings and conversations question whether the meeting take place as the knowledge being questioned the one with you and that makes those divisions i haven't seen this inquiry i have not those lines effectively question now will say i think it stands out really like to say that i think this

gentlemen invariably i mean to the investigation and secondly was german know these killings we get on may seventeen nineteen seventy three he says the days of intensive questioning the witnesses we you know men and women supposedly with an impeachable as usual all of us

many of these witnesses i think the other witnesses right right and i think it is relevant to this investigation to determine what this is for example in the movie for us reasons for his dismissal and i don't think they do all right

witnesses i think it's you know partial but which has rumors that was one of them that is the position one when says it does it has been some of these positions questions

all right well something like that from the system this is jonah the center you just as chairman and receive word that running for the senate it's twenty billion dollars a financing or republican on leadership committee that like the biggest boost from these proceedings until the senate acts at campuses gina prince

bleak listen to you one will be given to get this is the second of the second amendment you know it's

b nineteen seventy three we need to get people to put up a story on the money that was used in support of demonstrations against the president in nineteen seventy two we should find or nineteen seventy two demonstration and after the democrats' as part of the peace movement the investigation should be brought to include the peace movement which leads directly to mcgovern and teddy kennedy is a

counter offensive to be developed and this connection we need to itemize all the disruptions such as the century plaza san francisco statue of liberty and so you should definitely one way to go ahead on the fbi investigation against those without next minute bill in nineteen sixty eight we need to develop a plan on to what extent the democrats were responsible for the demonstrations that lead to violence or destruction there's also the question of whether we should let out of fort wayne story now we weren't listening we could let evans and novak what about and then being asked about it to make the point that we knew and the president said it was not to be used andy under circumstances in any event we have to play a very hard game on this whole thing in your investigation

documents that that is what does this document states is a memorandum from you to johnny says that memorandum argued there i will accept responsibility for the b a memorandum follow because of some bad english and other problems and i would point out that it is not initial binding which would it would have been had it written the memorandum and seven i believe that this was a memorandum prepared instructions over my name having said that i'm disappointing responsibility for the english and then that goes in and not accepting overall responsibility for the memorandum there were accepting responsibility not the actual mr rivlin well i like

your version of true it means we need to get our people on a communist money who refuses or demonstrations against the president's only juju fall nineteen seventy demonstrators to mcdonagh's to the democrats for that reason i think that there was that there was some information out about that was the third there was for money used to support the financing of demonstrations the point here was to developers for the un and then the case of the acts are skipping under the one two three four if it does say we need to develop a plan to what extent this is that english again that on to what extent the democrats are responsible for the demonstrations that lead to violence or destruction in other words this was to determine the facts and to get out the story

with the objective of time or where the accidents are trying those demonstrations to those who are responsible for it democratic party i'm a nurse's the senate passed on to what extent the democrats were responsible for demonstrations that lead to violence or destruction they say we need to get people to put up a story on the former communist money was used in support of demonstrations against the presence of the tuition by all my conservative and change the mcgovern and bust of the democrats as part of this program that's right the democratic party to either promised money or formally tie the demonstrations that instigated by

our people do those people try to get out the story oh what the facts were in regard to the instigation of financing of demonstration and others in nineteen seventy three and interestingly enough i've made my own neurosis to your go back to your opening statement before this committee and i express myself with the image that you are trying to portray here glover with the words it's too these matters been linked to the democratic candidate of the democratic party and i didn't receive or i didn't think that this particular memorandum laughter i had made my own impressions to what we were trying to convey in your opening statement my impression of your body and joints

vivian years the seventies this individual in the us and as part of the titan with farnam communist money and the leaked identity demonstrations what is this is this what you really have to assess what you believe during the course of the campaign of nineteen seventy two was asked to be the prosecutor but let me that i don't understand your references to soft on communism and an assault on our vip is is there something that i've said that that leads to that thank you mr

mcgovern campaign and the democrats and the peace movement to the demonstrations and to the point that i understood there was backing on our information on the job there was a more ominous money used in support of demonstrations it was my vision you know that was a biggie you mean but as a mineral cousin of the united states you're doing economist mounting demonstrations

i'm audie cornish that's what this country is about that's what a memorandum was directed at the counsel of the president who had the facts as i understand it on this case the story this is not a request for investigation to request an investigation that type of thing which for the region but in the hands of law on either the fbi cia national security broke any law enforcement grant you that there's a new request for an investigation of the factors is to put out the story that was my understanding that there were gaps that led to these points that i don't know

i've stayed in one of my understanding was a visitor visiting was the one i understood at the facts i think in the caribbean and i'm renee montagne because these things have been abused i think we thought these matters and then another matters also your party and your candidate not my job quite frankly that's based on facts

but that's it and i think what happens is the nineteen seventy three i don't think there's been a change in tactics in the election campaign isn't it true that when you support as a part of the visual perception short questions and chairman haldeman following the questioning of my previous term i want to ask you since you said the checks people were routinely maybe by the fbi why did you personally regret that the eye background checks on certain persons i'm not sure without knowing what the

specific circumstances were against each instance senator well you indicated that checks were being made routinely about how many reasons and they were routinely made by the fbi so why was the only for you to request their checks on these reasons other than for the purposes that then were outside the school by which your testimony and beauty i don't know that i did request to do jokes on set that's not well i we went into the second shorter and then that butterfield testified that there were approximately a person's on which you had ordered checks to his knowledge and there you mentioned three i don't know but i understand that you did order checks on many individuals at forty understand that senator dodd who were there i

mean i understood that message about you say that you have ordered checks on different individual's but he knew at the checks that you had armed and he was only able to mention three and that as i recall from what you have from the obama years that report which i have not seen included request remote mr altman and for me now white why did you have to order these checks on certain individuals that the fbi was doing this routinely that's a question of math but without knowing the specific circumstance in a specific individual i couldn't tell you sir but i would submit that there are it's not unusual unlikely that if for instance a pending invitation or entertain at the white house on a pending invitation to

participate in a delegation or something of that summer were being considered it will be a step taken to make it before that was pursued it anyway that that could become a backseat to the individual if in fact that proved un not satisfactory we found in a number of places that people who were under consideration did have problems that show up in their in their fbi files or as a result of the fbi checks that resulted in a decision not to make the appointment or issued the invitation on a proper basis because it had to avoid embarrassment to the white house and to avoid embarrassment to the individual who is in the business of ordering irs checks at the white house an individual it would have been in a situation where individuals have that

authority i'm not sure who depend on the city's specific situation where you weren't expected departure no mention on sunday night at the san jose responsibility to true these requests by personnel at the white house the general procedure would would have been for such requests to be the major the counsel's office but there are exceptions you know whether our message across an injection i don't know you know where they're a mystical appeal to request that any of these any of this information nobody was aggressive about india counsel's office so i now one after one final question now the other day i asked the question as a strong workforce was medicated and following orders and was best ratings than that that

right after the watergate break in that he might not have enough information and he imposed this committee that he was taking in his boots because he did not have enough information to adequately informed you at the white house upon your return from some trick i asked him a question which you know a lot of it and then the question that revolved around what advice in view of his experience he would have for the people the young people of this country with respect to public service and graven at a stalemate now until then it's a community on your knowing this young man so well and he hadn't let me with his testimony and his sincerity and his soldierly dedication to duty i want to tell your knowledge of this

young man what might have inspired him two major teams from his experience so when he gave that answer one of the saddest moments of history because it's an answer that i would certainly give in exactly the opposite direction and i would have hoped that this distraught woman answered in exactly the opposite way from the way that he bit a us my opinion when i ask you what is your advice to the young people of this country because we are in the public service and i feel that we should put this matter in public can get from a public service is a trial of its services a mom and i'm sure that you can shed light on this and you argue the disconnection of the white house as the number one man next to the press what advice do you have my advice senator to any young man or young woman

who feels that he or she has the ability of interest to serve this country in any way in the government or in any other way that he should pursue that where she shared that interest to the first of his or her ability i think it would be tragic and maybe the greatest of all of many tragedies that there seemed to be flowing out of this whole situation if it would result in any individual who had decided at some point already been thinking at some point of coming into the government to serve in elective office appointive office or as a staff member to a member of congress or in the white house or any of the government agencies if that decision were changed as a result of what's going on here that that would be in my mind an overriding tragedy i would like to say

that one of the proudest things that i have in the back of my mind is the intention of my oldest son to enter government service when he completes his college work which is in the middle of now and his intention to go to law school following that and i hope they got that he enters government service in some way i would like to have that information and i hope that our young man will come into the government's script and landesman that opportunity that those maneuver before this committee hat that they will let all the la and arrow and avoiding watergate committee which you'll be really unhappy with all my answer right fb

senator wyden mr lisa that february seventy three men will set out an enchanting new line question and a senator i haven't written things that you're an apple launch us to of that memo indicates a possible cover up mrs bae has been it was the middle of the bus out of recession and

said simon all the personnel among all of that you still believe people who work in the settlement also there will be no sudden recession maybe they don't want me here it's been to pass but the pope has been what about your

nineteen seventy two and nineteen seventy three our mom in the sense of him in the white house unless i'm in the room who feel great heroes discuss that was never reduced number one radio while some was not anywhere near as well as you know you have to remember that in nineteen seventy three yeah babysitters

well yeah i don't believe that i think at this memorandum i think with notes or a phone conversation the night i don't know that it had any connection with well at all the president is not concentrating is that it is a matter of nathan and as the memorandum which a lot of people may count all the london cantina oh

no the issue that was the reason about what led a prayer it was a couple you were discussing paul collins about the lockout that's a lot of wooden say that anything in this memorandum had any relationship to forestalling his name the investigation of the

demonstrations against the nineteen seventy two we may get out diplomats don't know all that oh and that is to let their to do with the aftermath of the election i don't believe that it has any direct relationship to the activity of his committee over because this was well and this is going to be made i think i think that it was seen as a

measure of their own our money as i'm sure about what the problem is and you we need to get a lot of places but as possible all the structures are part of the campaign will lead this following a part of it but i don't see that as a as a means of disrupting returning our main activity that committee and i see it is that as a counterattack to get the material it would be below all right i don't believe it oh

yeah there's no question well we don't know oh really and let me ask you i don't know wasn't manufacture something and ten the reason that i don't believe it created this memorandum is that

the study did not believe what i was referring to her and i would not in any sense reforms to him that responsibility it's not my name and that that is a point of that is is an event on my book my guess would be he says there's a danger to sixty minutes for follow on the sixty thousand residents of the man in a pile

and as regards of water he also was involved in the analysis of demonstration and the recording that have been made that point and when you you're welcome you're welcome the president knew about this particular story is

an investor and i wasn't and now your letters i deny it at this memorandum but i have accepted responsibility for its contents mr chairman women as it was wrong while we only way you can really get it and he was you know i'm bob i'm with david yeah that's right thank you all

do right now you say that he did not use a recollection and so they didn't have any recollection of that specific i don't work at that memorandum in that they're specific sense i have no question that i was a political moment a number at which he referred to don't think it was one specific piece of it as i recall mr scruggs testimony which is go on said that among the other thirteen items that he reported from that meeting was once a committee now has a sophisticated intelligence operation but given the three hundred thousand now they have a low cost of all their legal help you when you're going to happen to the people and i was the ironies of mr mitchell bail out of the uk ok this game leading a lot harder

i mean and seven through the estimate of apology you've been you know and moscow but beyond that the people that you're talking to a big subject of thought that you could make him while mr mitchell about now you recall that palpable no i don't mean any not specifically the best restaurant had a practice of preparing the paper that were to suggest would include his suggestions of items of my memories of meetings with instruments thank you ms ba i might think that mr turner just just on that that's a point where follow the

point that that meeting with mr mitchell in his own testimony said he had known articles those talking neighbors were his suggestions of things that he thought i might want arrangement instrumental he has no knowledge that i didn't raise any of them with him and i don't believe that that was discussed at the meeting mr mitchell because that meeting was in conjunction with the meeting mr mitchell it was the same day which showed other matters relating to the fight against it and hearings and the clams was making for assigning regional campaign responsible individuals of that interview with the president it is

on those two issues that they do something seen those faces on president statesman radio in the car as i say i can't think of a single question to ask with us on this committee has agreed to discuss the executive session was important to expedite this phase of the hearings show we can get the more hopefully next week my own personal view is that i think these hearings are damaging his government seriously the nation and also its relations and will therefore i don't intend as many more questions of those weapons and

something unknown way just for the record says they're a few questions relating to the tapes committee as to who knew about the existence of the recording system in the white house other than me members of a tactical security division of the secret service and i don't know who in their organization knew of that there was the smallest number of people feasible within the requirements they don't technically two and the racial divisions the only other people that i'm aware of the new of the existence of the case at the time i was at the white

house where the president myself out about a film is trading i did not know mr butterfield secretary was aware of them and i understand he is testifying i don't believe anyone else did and i don't recall and has indicated that anyone else if he has and if you want to check those names with me i could confirm my knowledge as to their knowledge director of the federal bureau of investigation was you wear this was the director of the central intelligence agency and where did you have a room that was secure with no recording devices where mr helms discuss highly sensitive matters with the president of the united states

there are only two rooms lot three because again also that this list that it will be on switched on our bases the only two rooms which were covered by escaping were the oval office of the president at the white house and the other office the alternate office of the president in the executive office building and then as i said the cabinet room which was on a bus which the others were on that you weren't the cia director would discuss discussion record i don't know and just because i believe the laws that would prohibit there's a compromise and the central intelligence agency that's not what recording these conversations

so the president would have for his own use an unknown reference on historical bases and accurate and precise record of everything that was set by him and by other people with whom he was confirmed was the invention of the president eventually released all the things that a certain it's my understanding that it was his intention was not ever to release the tapes the compilation tape is for arizona news not only to live the night you were given the table so tenderly i think so yes yes yes i am not sure

which ones these involving what the president has to be myself but no they didn't want any president especially in europe the response to a query you suggest that you ought to aquarium of the americas and now you are aware of the onion because these i believe i indicated that i was where i was aware of what's being deceptive seth andrews quickly switched it's both the portland