1973 Watergate Hearings; 1973-06-27; Part 3 of 5

the pittsburgh when he wanted me to have the right question what collection of the meetings would have occurred in february and preceding year and i said to him that's michael pollan camp david who is saying is that

you and he were discussing i guess the watergate what led up to it and that is the impression was that you were thinking that ended i guess about three these missiles office discussion of electronic logging with these poems on air do you recall that all matter but i was never clear on what happened between february and june seventeenth i believe that a minimum number of occasions because i haven't unpacked so mr mcgregor testimony was a revelation to many let us meeting our march twenty first why ryan morden meeting or if you have a

president that as i understand it is and you what is that i think that stayed at my intentions are to what i had seen the kind of their conversations the president rather nonchalant we discuss it does i know are you

because we had the same amount of note taking in the travels overland things it sort of slow down and cause chaos and sometimes it was because it was that being publicly opposed it well this meeting of the twenty first a jewish guy into the president's fall on you know about walking the winners i think i think i had in my testimony of those points to them again i will i take great care in trying to do that in mice that money i

mean i believe that that's it i'm david greene thank you and he began to debate with me about and i said oh good question yes i did one thing isn't it

that bothered me tremendously was when mr grant made his final demand on the white house he sent that mean with mr carlson well mr shapiro i mean meeting with mr paul ryan's mr ryan on the nineteenth and twenty twenty the city what was the weekend going into banking union and reportedly an increasing monday that report

was that i was demanding a living expenses and fifty thousand dollars on each face a message was sent directly to me i ask why why the same he had me the same question on the city to send this message that team he says that money isn't forthcoming quickly because sentencing is one occurred this week and i think that we can and make arrangements that now that was what prompted me a different races again would get more when i had a meeting with more adult more that i was you know this thing with wit topic for many many months about candidates and i thought that's to me was just another indication a bit like blackmail of the white house in march twenty fifteen raising of the government money i will never

be one great detail and that is yes that it did you talk to the president to talk to him about the executive clemency offered to call for you know i've been through a couple of the court is out and arthur did not come out and written in and that they have a home in common later at a meeting of president obama's comment and good for

you little pretty much again almost all of the night what transpired on decisions made that mr mitchell should come down the next day you have a great discussion about that and that we went to a meeting in oman in oakland's office that was the only thing that was discussed some instances we were alone in the entire time and was at the very end of the meeting he came in your memoir long he was there i don't know i wouldn't say more than five minutes to show ms banes be did you have a levy on what mr

dey i guess or i was disgusted that may well it says that when a mr discussions began maybe follow for the white house after the break in would be forgotten and we went to a meeting in the president's office thirty that afternoon to read and discussed that a number of ideas came out of that meeting well initially and he said no now indeed

mm hmm i think with the new team discuss why anybody on a number of occasions i discussed the concept of immunity with mr moir in the meeting even you know the way to get the truth to get the truth

and to do so thank you as jurors only a matter of time before i was called an idea of this problem of the real dilemma for me because i was on a letter that has done to them and a lot about executive privilege and things of this nature there was no discussion as i understand it your testimony about jury everybody's going off possibly this community because there could have been a discussion

about miley concept but walk down there the next day to come up again and again i used to discussion at this meeting and later they won only twenty second and the argument put this down on papers that what you do you want it

was not was on the phone he said well you're out there i want to sit down and let a report on this time i asked him i was going to be twenty years he said that haven't been decided yet on assignment i had been turned out on december thirteenth i wanted to go through this exercise again and again on how to proceed communities i might mention as early as

february when i had a meeting with the president yesterday and i was in a time of a campaign and i said no i hadn't i'd been up there once to me that the election of a brief meeting with folk music you like some weekend a it's an excellent place to go he mentioned on the market and my but my wife as a very gracious and say no it should go to camp david a matchmaker you did it is true and eloquence that you

get a copy of the letter and read the popular ask me what my assessment was in bed to my conversation with o'brien auckland that seemed at best the third armor court hasn't here say it was then much later because of the great statement to police but there were some complications making at any time to camp david

we've just heard general discussion also oppressive brady report are divided on the campaign a specific line in my office first collected material that didn't take with me for it it was on the evening there was some evening i received the la times with the publishers nineteen seventy i don't think anybody knows

at that time you know want to talk about this and we had a conversation about the situation so the councils would retain at that time when i was on the twenty fifteen as i recall that's true mr it's morning edition

that is good mr scheffer and i had a number of meetings with an outline the scope of my testimony both of them and my involvement myself and a lot of others i had the third committee and to the president's words the prestigious bcs bowl it

is white house stationery is this a little bit and it is when i visited one also

the protests began twenty five now that list of others and then better understanding of the evidence of that in that committee investigated now that list is covered by the memorandum

or nineteen seventy one source would be for medical so it would be a security bell and also it was a though gordon and to continuously updated it is my right now that list they come from there's the balance is related to the memorandum out of my understanding my best recollection from my meditation on the problem

after more than two hours of questions senator bernie still not satisfied with the details of john dean's crouch in a moment your resume asking questions all the televisions coverage of the senate watergate hearings will continue after a pause for station identification i don't live coverage of these hearings is provided as a public service of the member stations of pbs the public broadcasting service the piece be

the pain and pike continues its coverage of

hearings by the senate select committee on presidential campaign activities you again correspondent jim lehrer as the committee reagan named after lunch center of unanswered questions about those memos john dean had given to the committee we didn't get it there is

here the committee chairman then that there might be some confusion about some narrative that the opposition that's all we can say is that last night as we were looking for piles of jurors this committee as well as the listener's hastily assembled we called it we had no other reason other laws if we could

we would you're welcome this is a memorandum of white house was the vikings evidence that the domestic intelligence and security the

documents that was great if you have any help long's theology there would be no problem it's eight

right right and then the fbi ministrations circumstances that others also a note to meet thomas sullivan and which indicates the content is self explanatory and i don't know and it's pretty

remarkable and indicates that he would be willing to testify information at to see the competition say what

i know that voice resilient this is about reducing the lead rather an overabundance use of security classifications national security qualifications related murders were not national security

lately three teenage lives and the documents that were turned over and montana the three by was that

it is security yes it was thank you

many are do you need to have employees that i didn't know what it was to be raised and i believe i discussed with them the fact that to get this information from the room where did you already have those conversations that in a coffee shop in his hotel i will be summoned member station took place in his room and not in the top that we only talk about maybe five minutes a coffee shop venue agenda up to his room and i thought well that's good you mentioned

three hundred and fifty thousand dollars from that came into the white house my recollection is that boston strong picked up that amount of money for more committed to religion when the us in more detail what he was receiving money before april seven when mr shawn came to me and ask me like it's a testament to somebody outside of the government that would have a court could open a safety deposit box got it now some will use

out of the three hundred and fifty thousand dollars you'll recall what that for you was i guess it was i recall when i first learned it was sometime or within two or three or four weeks after the june seventeen thousand but i was told it to twenty two thousand dollars for the expanded out of that alive and then there's been not much of a safety deposit box and that money and turn was to be used for advertisements something of this nature twenty two i know that the fifteen fifteen to that was for ten to me was twenty two and had not been expanded and i was told that

the market had been expanded had been used for political at school i guess sixty five when you have a conversation with mr stands about restoring the twenty two thousand dollars on the making a whole again yes it was late july august september because there was a desire to get the entire three feet back out of the white house simultaneous with these conversations it was also a desire to accumulate any can be found to pay for the support and silence of the individuals who've been involved in watergate league

i can recall on several occasions discussing his research and how to deal with the three fifty one of them was where would it go that it wouldn't be reported and apple reported before the election it would appear to be a secret slush fund that the white house well it to discuss the election was just that's i guess that this election one that one point mr stanza i don't really have the money to replenish the i do there is an immediacy and the money and it was just fans

twenty eight why did us who stands for twenty two thousand dollars as time when you only in fifteen thousand two hundred dollars of that money and drugs three thousand eight hundred dollars decision i didn't want to be used to pay for the support that the silence of these individuals and i was not going to come and whatnot with actual as i was passing for that purpose if you're requesting twenty two thousand dollars from us to stand just for the couples we now know i was anathema to make the fundamental and there was resistance at that point the white house just to make a final

why we should be afraid of putting fifteen thousand two hundred dollars which you say there were simultaneous and as a result i within days after <unk> gesture stands for ten percent over twenty two the result of that i was asked to get authorization to use the entire three fifty and i was very much aware in the middle of the real conversations on the one hand to make the funds whole and simultaneously with making money available to pay the defendants and i had no idea how it would turn out for a reason first you say that you didn't use the fifteen thousand two hundred which came from the twenty two thousand to return and my money might be used to silence money

but then when i ask you when you request that for most expansive you had no compunctions about the use of which is worth i mean please on the white house to pay money that was coming to me from other channels i was always hopeful that we would find some remedy but that week that he would not be used to pay for the support of these individuals you know certainly that would or would not happen i have discussed it with almost like they were asking for the money fifty two conversations for most fans

that seemed like a great risk in order to make that money thank you it contains a fifteen thousand two hundred dollars you a check for four thousand eight hundred and fifty dollars what kinds of normal checking account no it was not get the money antares copy of mike's that came in that new jobs in national surveys and trust their joint

account john wesley wander through life center in the future and this is an assignment chairman on one second of this month certain records live in kampala reserve is a bank statement dated october twenty six nineteen seventy two national savings and press club in washington dc five two couples were doing the police baton how much money

i had about six hundred dollars sixteen one thousand six hundred twenty five dollars and twelve thousand others and yet you put in your name where you're getting the money in just a couple of questions you mentioned that you have these were down on the patio i think that there were five hundred dollars worth of work as a career didn't you might check that would be the normal tip why can't you see educated by ken <unk> what i wasn't dissipating need to be at that time i did not use that because ultimately as i said i'm

a parisian expenditures out of money for everything from groceries to other incidentals why didn't you play here as my possession and i was using what cash of its trust fund that's correct and curious about three the wedding trip do you use credit cards sometimes sometimes not you do have is a tribute to use these years running my wife it's big tending to their yearly meetings with the president

to understand that human nature comes live on religion and this morning it was over oh yeah they get no when you engage your present health care chapter on the thirtieth area of marsh

mr mccann listserv was engaged as i recall sometime in mid april after mr hogan had removed himself from the case criminal liability absolutely not five hours in which i went over the highlights he said i like to think about that over the weekend and really again on monday mornings on friday and on monday morning he met again at about two hours or more i do did you have any discussions and this

time for i am with the president and it doesn't i mean talking to understand the money at that time actually did you have any meeting at all of the president from the media march twenty second phone calls on march twenty two it was twenty three i don't recall the moment when we discussed migrant camp david and that was the last contact with him until april fourteenth is that correct i believe it was april of fifteen senate when i evolve it well now why was that you had been meeting with them almost daily

what's your theory meetings the situation is when i met with him twenty years but i thought that they could be indicted and i could be indicted and i was a disagreement with things that in the meeting i subsequently had a meeting the next day on the twenty second the morning with mitchell and my so there was no discussion of one person that came out of the meeting was

mr mitchell it was referring to make demands and mr mitchell said i don't think that one man there's the avenue leading ensembles in which there is more discussion about how to handle this committee and deal with attorneys at the white house and the president's daughter on executive privilege i mean do you remember the senators are taking a short break for the first of several roll call votes that interrupt the afternoon

session come back to lyons and they're going to try to fix the dates of john dean's meetings with the watergate prosecutor's and his meetings with the president and we were discussing the fbi communication with them he was twenty seven and there were dealing with his committee

those two countries he does i believe you april fifteenth at which time i sent him a message now what has happened in my estimation is it

thank you for that playing the cover up a mini more uncertain when i came back from camp david didn't have them in my meetings with mr cullum oh my subsequent meeting with mr mitchell and my meeting this was on the twenty eight meeting with mitch mitchell magruder mitchell magruder but not all women and paul asked me to come back to camp david and i had a great meeting with him and i said we had for many many many months the top we talk openly about this was on the twenty eight years councilman tony

ferguson announcer did it in gasoline connection any connection libya story of money in the la times and was the camp david but i really made a decision that there were just no way i was going to continue well these meetings on the twentieth and twenty first twenty seconds were as i understand the very first meetings between what i would call perhaps most principle or people involved in watergate at least those in the white house where you were trying to be serious discussion about all of the rule on something so i wouldn't characterize the meetings as to how what had begun in fact meetings were suddenly that this crab in the testimony many many meetings i had occurred in an earlier

where we talk about you know how do we deal with the senate committee in the us and one point in the meeting picked up the phone called the attorney general and asking why he hadn't been meeting with senator baker you said wanted we had discussed the watergate and previous occasions before that were discussed at the thirteenth we talk about money in clemency you told me is really is my february meetings with him that day i was reporting that the debt limit that the wind some of the exhibits remain and with a one point i decided that i had to tell the president what i thought the implications of this whole situation

before the quake i had become known as a result of the break in and at the co op but not continue well anyway what was being discussed in these meetings they were affecting watergate story of how to deal with some of the millions remain only committing an evening that is the thrust of a conversation as committee

members many of the questions you know i didn't feel it much discussion of this committee but that was twenty years ago i was going to happen and before that meeting you can manage to see the meaning of that is that it was widely as i think that maturity

due out i have had a communication from mr o'brien that mr hunt was making a new an increased demands and we're now coming directly to the white house and i could i see that the white house is going to be increasingly in the recently placed in a position of having to deal with the situation precipitated your request of his meeting with the president oh i have discussed with more with more for many many months out and this situation how to get the president so that he would step forward and say this is what my aunt altman has this is what the picture is from my standpoint but there seem to be no way to do that did you see

anything so we had to go in it's much it to the security situation in this regard my conversation with moore mr moore knew a lot i didn't know everything out for example when he had recommended the fb