1973 Watergate Hearings; 1973-10-09; Part 1 of 3

the pain is is after you would receive the boss of material you would go through it and determine what was relevant for purposes of it is that we're seeing there would be no is this an airport as pakistan these lights light at the base of a combat veteran would be photographed us i mean women in the senate of the united states and to establish a select committee to

the investigations from washington and today's hearings the senate select committee on presidential campaign activities designed by correspondent jim lehrer good at political espionage is a routine way of life in american politics and everybody in the business knows that excessive and engages in this was the concise matter of fact message today from nixon campaigns by john buckley is that jack and his testimony before the urban committee buckley at fifty three year old former fbi agent congressional investigator and federal poverty official said he recruited a washington taxi driver to assist and

surreptitiously borrowing and then photographing edmund muskie campaign documents of the nineteen seventy two election the photographs were then turned over to the nixon campaign official or a watergate figure e howard hunt is at war in addition to explaining the various techniques he used them accomplishing of this but they lay out his firm belief that what he did was perfectly proper and all part of the game of politics but they resisted efforts from the senators to get him to say he was sorry but they said his conscience was clear and that's that measure will say in the process of today short session just over two hours and all up in the committee raised once again some of the crucial questions involved in how political campaigns are conducted in this country jobs but they also had an additional significance for the committee staff it is only vaguely referred to in the course of an airing today but the uk is prepared now to make it more specific no matter that the committee does not exploited payments interrogation of john

buckley with his role in instigating an investigation of chief committee investigator common billy no well summer the republican national chairman george bush charged that the leno had masterminded political espionage including electronic surveillance republican presidential nominee richard nixon back in nineteen sixty eight novel you know vigorously denies this charge and the three member subcommittee headed by senator herman talmadge it's investigating the matter the roots of the bush allegation apparently line information provided by barclay at the request of just leonard former head of the law enforcement assistance administration just what buckley and leonard's roman the whole thing is we don't know right now buckley today invoked the attorney client relationship and refusing to go into it and senator lowell weicker who was probing the matter said he would not go any further until the talmud subcommittee reports back so it will be back at the close of the live broadcast to discuss some of the issues raised by buc his testimony with me then to provide all the answers will be

mike mcallister watchman based political consultant who has a professional is dissipated and political campaigns at the local state and national level now to the hour by hour lot of committees sure day and the first hour bumpy details what he obtained from his agent in the musty office including press releases internal memos and speech threats but he says there was no conflict with his job at the office of economic opportunity because it would rendezvous with a spider in his lunch hour two berkeley says he has no idea how you can prohibit political espionage because it is so hard to define and he cites other problems knowing that those leaks indicate there are thousands of bison the executive branch and the short third hour about to testify that he has no problem with his conscience because of his actions have provoked some sharp words from senator examined and late this morning and it was senator baker proper control they will kill me or

airman as an unavoidably detained will be here shortly after know i ask that indicate that the commerce committee is an executive session today and ninety s responsibility for a number of bills are being considered an obsession now chairman should be here in the next fifteen to thirty minutes and at that time i will have to leave in order to manage an amendment to strip mine bill or the senate and witnesses now i mean before we proceed with that understand council as an affidavit that he wishes to present the record was six which raises a person whose name is mentioned or specifically identify people is the testimony and evidence presented at a public hearing a comment made by the committee member council terms of the fame or otherwise adverse effect his reputation made a request to appear personally filed a sworn affidavit affects relevance of testimony

mr mitchell i counsel of four years to the policy studies as of this rule it's like entering into the record it's meditative of mitchell made in the city of washington district of columbia <unk> than being police warned the hoses and set one i'm a partner in the law firm of on a little poorer but one imam is street northwest washington dc remember the bag with colombia and general counsel the institute of policy studies have preferred to skip tooth is to the nonprofit corporation which is exempt from federal income taxes under section five oh one scene three of the internal revenue code of nineteen fifty four and the charitable an educational organization and which is not a quote private foundation unquote under the coat in school engages and research and the public policy

matters and is engaged in the training and education of individuals through his phd program is that engages and no real political activism quote a forbidden under the internal revenue laws three in testimony before the senate select committee on presidential campaign activities on wednesday september twenty six nineteen seventy three mr patrick buchanan and of course his testimony made several false allegations concerning institute for in his testimony was the cannons that it for the ford foundation provides funds unquote for the institute for policy studies that is that was a quote that a fishery afford money unquote at the institute for of course is for funded uncle was the canceled leave the impression because says funding has come primarily a large part of the ford foundation thought that funds his tooth has received a ford foundation consisted of a one year grant of seven thousand eight hundred dollars receive in nineteen sixty four for the specific purpose of

holding seminars on the subject of the alliance for progress this crab was a very minor source of funding for the assistant six with the cannon stated that the as to quote hold seminars for congressman for staffers an ally and at institute deal in trying to influence congressmen unlike the vote in one direction and the n and the quote seven and that is today's held conferences and seminars which had been attended by among others congressmen and their systems like no time has used to defend that involves the votes of commerce at yesterday cantor said that is to quote founded the creeks over times and a quote which he described as quote radical underground newspaper and quote quote which has a political point of view which is so for profit and the quote is the canon stated further that sense he was a mayor with a quicksilver times as a quote commercial venture it would seem to me that this would

be a melissa use a tax exempt bonds and the quote the same sentences of the canon why the biggest interviews ford foundation money to find the quicksilver times nine in fact is that it is never funded the quicksilver times to the best of my knowledge and belief the washingtonian magazine article cited minister began in there's not states because the ever find that their books over times ten the names of the institute for pop policy studies the last minute richard barnett haven't mentioned in the course of hearings before the senate select committee in connection with the so called list of quote enemies and poorly ministration against when certain an estranged officials urged that the resources of the us government agencies be a lot of innovation and i did refer to do a master opens the somali phobia mammal development of august eleven nineteen seventy one in the case of both raskin and one that were quote over and a quote eleven the institute has been the subject of an audit by the internal

revenue service ever since the next administration took office the latest law that began in january of nineteen seventy one at the irs code special service and full program scope and nature of a lot of them are going to describe his routine well at present the internal revenue service using quite unusual procedures has proposed to revoke the institute's tax exemption the grounds for a vacation did not include any of the alleged activities mentioned the nasa began but rather concerned terrible an educational activities of history which are indistinguishable and the activities of other institutions of higher learning the united states but we do involve viewpoints the free sharply from those the administration's thirteen it appears that the internal revenue service of those cases the fall of the three cans professor belief that education organizations with studies social issues but which did not engage in political activities should be permitted to maintain their tax exemption because they're well they're considered quote liberal unquote or cripple conservative unquote fourteen

it's true to his land or former fbi informant the fbi on several occasions as impulse for the institute of policy studies with agents and for most obvious one occasion joined with a member of the magic wand please support them that that the documents and the estimate fifteen years or some of the lies a former special agent fbi the fbi has him properly secure the bank records and he has to adapt is a legal process sixteen the institute as evidence of illegal surveillance of the institute of elemental agency remains a wiretapping of five surveillance and breaking and i seventeen representatives today will be able to supply you with further details of these activities sigh michel roman subscribers wanted for me this third day of october nineteen seventy three lois mr clemons the republic and a standing room

gerrard indicate that sense the affidavit as an occasional updates is not subject to cross examination sense the rating of a fear that some information is based on other sources have been a member of the committee and his irish other information or cinematic other person standing rules committee we would pursue it what are appropriate if there's no objection and the other day we receive a nightclub a record our first witness is mourning has arrived and that he would hold up his right hand i'll administer the oath before we proceed to the matter of the community in order to please state your name mr buckley you solemnly swear that the testimony about to give before this committee will be the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth to help you may be seated buckley we met before certified popular with a signature judge john jones director chief judge announced it's just

reported at columbia well october ninth nineteen seventy three and they're unlucky number miscellaneous seventy day seventy three and tidal a matter that if the united states senate select committee on presidential campaign activities sorkin first use of nudity the application this committee under the relevant sections of united states go take their titles a title eighteen section six double two and six double fine the mandate of the order is that you the witness in accordance with those provisions shall not excusing just providing other information for the committee on the ground the testimony other information sought i tend to incriminate you with there is no objection on the part of the committee the order of immunity will be a criminal records are our official proceedings best ways to understand the nature and ten month ago i do very

well with councilman proceed with the examination we as a sound editor at less than that the city council will finish the question of what this iraqis states remain address probably won three formal ennoble the area don't be a leader and you are represented by counsel of the council didn't find so that money is going to the moon to have long ago as part of what your president was that i'll retire when she first began government service and when you first but at

one hundred and nineteen years and thirty and then you're going to wear after that i have no one to present time of three retired fbi every time in nineteen sixty four and then you and then you avoid a way that the house education labor committee was asked what the year of their functions reduce i was chief investigator for the minority of that committee and her duties as counseling now when you see a house committee in nineteen sixty nine mr buckley where were you employed then then went to the office of economic opportunity is vicar the inspections thank you

well adding value before he had known me by virtue of a pre pretend that in the end house represents what we are what we're doing is i supervised the us while thirty to fifty inspectors and support staff and inspections and investigations of irregularities in noncompliance of oil that winds and when gm contract programs that involved a new investigative work and i'm sure that you drew on new formal work as an investigator is it that's certainly not going as when did you leave june thirty nineteen seventy three was a reason for leaving

now there's to me during the years between your recap an fbi and you're in one video of what i think of the record shows your interview shows we said you worked for several several political campaigns one of them i believe was mr cecil underwoods campaign in nineteen sixty four the governor of west virginia wanted to do that campaign i was involved in investigating situations in west virginia for the republican candidate for governor i think we noted that he also worked for oil canada north carolina's jim carter in nineteen sixty eight on two separate occasions i investigated allegations in the west are asking a person it was

probably a failure to investigate i investigated number one undocumented situation in state institution for juveniles one of the amazing things what did you do another investigation subsequently after the election we examined only registrations involving in the internet for the most popular course at the house committee did you meet a man named kim reeves what we witnessed reeves i first that generates in january nineteen sixty seven years that i was a navy to a congressman who is on the education labor committee and had an office directly

in your mind what was the basis of your continued relationship with mysteries to ask you seem also really well acquainted with him was a friend juan and in connection with the committee business would have occasion to see industries and his congressman several times during the session and consideration of men foreign power bills bills and under section i actually received a call from the state can reduce in late july or early august of nineteen seventy one years of what he called the combing through experimentation a lot of latinos we've had a discussion with him what they're doing as much he indicated that he was in charge of youth youth vote for the committee to re elected president

and ambitions and that he had a responsibility to the term as far as we know what the hell activities what the location and the general activities of the muskie campaign headquarters were i know most of you just mentioned that most recently in the house why why do with mr reeves call you and ask you to help formulate a plan knowing full well that you avoided a loyal flock basically yeah i can speak from experience but i would assume that he was familiar with my background as an investigator we had at one time or another discussion of political campaigns or political investigations

about the seven mysteries ask you to come up with some proposals or planned did you come up with a plan he asked me if i would help grandma ascertain or the mosque the headquarters were volunteers what the staff was new advice that and then we will be doing none of that many standard ways that one gets a volunteer into an opponent's campaign and suggest that workers are a member of the press or one posing as an omnibus would win they're usually ascertain the things that he was interested in what you most of what i consider the public information those proposals were good plans about

putting a press person i know i don't believe at that point that any anything specific wasn't just any indicator that something in that nature might be says maybe i'm having you finally come up with a death by the streets to say that what was that point subsequent to that meeting there appeared in the local newspaper promenading the senate conferees that have to taxi cab rides and a particular day and neither of the affair we're ready for them issuing star nineteen seventy two written by mr marsico is chairman of witnesses

that operation it is it says on the other hand hubert h humphrey who incidentally didn't make make it working with bob short even a parent doesn't miss anything that went with being number two except chauffeur driven car if he misses that he has distinguished person i'm honest with you same story all over again certainly air force one might not even missed being present is that what is it something on

it now did mr reeves approval that wyeth well and plan form at that time i had been waiting for years with a semi retired general who was interested in some kind of employment that would give him a weekly wage and i discussed within the possibility of his only a campaign committee of the center of the city and he suggested that he wouldn't reduce the approval and sorrow who was five years it has

been as chairman we've identified at least two or three occasions to members of years with the committee consider withholding his name from public identification thank you and i think that really would be i i mentioned that because this man his advanced age he is he has been ill and as a visionary guys are

well i don't know in a recent job of permits are approved it's just the business don't know why at home or while i had known him for a prior fires six years having seen in some occasions on other occasions for transportation industry mr wright thanks for helping carry out the plan that he was willing to have you ever done any investigative work and using distilled water we're using them is right now

why hasn't it usually when we use we discussed a full time volunteer was to be utilized for purposes of reporting back to us weekly salaries between fifty and two hundred dollars and one thousand dollars a month cover the whole thing and i believe that it would so you were given assurances of honesty can read some of the permit it really hasn't that you would get a thousand dollars a month just providing it was successful but it

was visual on a hot industry why work himself into the musky organization just walk in the door while you walk to the muskie campaign headquarters with the newspaper article and suggested to the person in charge of volunteers of their lives and there's a ballot for senator humphrey if you're willing to spend some time each day the muskie campaign was he successful was he accepted as a volunteer organization it out shortly after he began working on the ski organization what was he doing what job hunting yet he did a number of things that really combing through clothes to the cleaners in egypt activists at the stationery store and things of that nature but one assignment

that was to become more mormons regularly heroes was to carry messages from mom was the muskie campaign headquarters to the senator's office so he would gather up you say messages that i suppose that includes documents letters press releases things of that nature and placed them in some container and caravan from must give the orders here to the senate that's generally actor i know did you make an arrangement with him that he would call you after receiving the muslim doctor's down and let you look at them this of course took show so we use three weeks is to be in the us an arrangement was made whereby he would call me when he was leading the campaign headquarters and tell me that he was a lasso so things that would require normally when that day it would require that there wasn't

someone accompanying him that it not be raining because the papers and would be would be worked on that i be available i was not available when he called and other times would be involved in existing businesses that mean when you were being somewhere in the nineteen twenties and then you proceeded to do what then we would drive for a couple rides and i'd say it's a look at really a man and that was in the bow of the memoranda and you determined you might well some of it what to do then i tried unsuccessfully for work too of these meetings to photograph a generation that was not a successful

it was inappropriate nathan was not suitable do this program in our wells role i'm a jobber the survey wasn't suitable of the dumbest but didn't have to have open to procure the bottom eighty one nasr one of the rules that we have an advantage there and one of the rules i made their rates in the tanks was a no time would be delayed or be handled every camper with minivans and they were now you just described having difficulty making photographs of materials that are in different places of

what did you do to try to improve your operation subsequently i rented an office which was located near the muskie campaign committee and at about the same time they purchased some equipment some light switch would be more effective in conducting a copy where was his office it was seventeenth street in my own name as an attorney but we have to be dealt

with which i just had the pen and family and eleven you have a confidence and was a ten to twenty to nineteen seventy one you're great this is a couple describe what it is at this is no objection need not and will be receiving evidence as an exhibit problem our president but what's the central one

is that it's on the street is no it's beautiful places and this is a developing nation i mean bahrain regions this describe her operation forced mr of water bring in the material and he would rush out of the room i take it he would bring in the material and a possible to me like it was the stationery stationary box and curios open this vision was as stacked in the master own and by

this it's a show about men who do press releases a canary internal memorandum or perhaps address or speeches maybe or position i suppose at times that there were letters like pups and muskie signature which were not in their right to make photographs of that particular they're good and then i would have i would've thought they weren't rap form to the letters that were signed the worst in it you run across a list of contributors at times list of people who visited

would you say you would use there weren't any jesus is a camera soars as a copy stand these lights light up the base of the back in an especially would be photographed us taking the film would you develop it yourself it so where you are now once the film was about what you do it once the film was you know i wouldn't deliver it to a generation to another and get it out mysteries

every day to deliver there was the seventeenth of anything but then something happens to return over money you for your service once a month you have any idea what he was doing where do i do not imagine that really gave him earlier that there was someone else i'm going on someone's i planted in the streets start hearing later and seemed somewhat i'm interested in your material almost from the first to his late work agency did not come

to the point i discuss the women and voting couldn't be punctual it that i lived in when i want you gave him an ultimatum that he didn't show up or show he indicated that there would be someone else that would be contacting me that someone else was a memo that warren and the first meeting you would meet in front of the us to a photo of a synonym i mean do you and the witness are at war in every idea while i didn't at the time i really recognize them through the eulogy at arrest and virtues hard labor that he was in the middle of that i've been dealing with three months in the seventies and through an eternity figure who met

witnessed at war i would estimate chrysler three times a month for both formal right now added to identify yourself or identify myself to him under an assumed name will use the name jack kent jack can't the ante as jobs although the witness stand the other day and he referred to you as is that jack gillum under six weeks ago risa and confident over that they referred to leave at first timer so you assumed name was jack can't answer it the

reasons describe your meetings with mr warren a good deal within what what transpired just taken the film and what where was your cause i don't think it doesn't even really matter delivering the antelope and saying that they no coffee no conversations available where it might be described as a medium to use to sponsor didn't trust one another rufus could remove that material ominous impressive sure but it was as a developer and this is after you had met just can't reach for a

while he met with mr warren for a while when the project finally terminated an alternate private terminated government sent him as he announced his withdrawal the nomination in april nineteen seventy four previous weeks decreased opposing positions we were so successful cesar operations we have discussed we went to germany campaigns

but their activist working to perform any other services for the committee to reelect president and he says that you know things that i wanted to ask why fall is a generation gap that he was not active in various new movie resume his taxi business have you ever had an interview with the staff i knew that until after he had been in the big army that night and told me that he had been subpoenaed and that he had thought that number he denied any involvement in any of this activity you tell you that he did come back and

substantiate everything is that he told me before i came back later that he was asked the most about it when you were working at a rather opposition that read that anyone at the only yolo any of your activities at any time gardeners don't think so and which really didn't but they discovered after the activity has occurred and that's what made it was there tension i don't think so only in light of the recent publicity you don't think that you know you said you felt so the second had nothing to do with your leading oil well how's it possible due to the actions of those patients in iraq was about somewhere allah at the most about thirty five forty minutes we're really would not be other more than fifteen minutes the location was about six or

seven minutes from now usually in most holy part of the calls you received from mr weil mr reese today a positive id because senator office i have never heard anyone express concern now you've also the very infrequent why apple would happen and share a potentially i believe in an interview with the staff has worked for you testified that you're given around eight thousand dollars is operation i base that on my recollection that we were involved about seven or eight months it was seven months in the seven months of the committee what what happened that money the mice of

sicily went to the cabin there he will receive what money was and spend it and expenses of that and it is and the early weeks and white of the purchases he was given and fifty dollars a week fb and one the government purchased he was he was then given a hundred and seventy five hours away and the rattle of the office space so you your chest thank you get no benefit to one out of many of us in not only money to me i would lose my recollection that there were times when i spend some of my money and the average ballast water let's go back to the xbox

you see from mr elman why oh i know it's hard to reconstruct details when you see a lawsuit to try to remember some of the documents you saw you saw a press release its use so it enriches you saw their acts of letters well they could have the letters in the words and they were stamped but the letter prepared waiting for senate must secure as possible i'm i'd like to use of the rough draft blunders they're juicy letters from contributors big juicy letters coming to suffer must be from contributors roy in my recollection isn't big juicy dresses speeches there were drafts and they can say we give the speech as a release is our position papers were you you rented room i did not evaluate our allies well you know what you're getting

i did say if it pertains to an ontario the candidates or if it pertains to a press release on a particular topic if that pertain to his position on an issue what would be considered an issue it it was wrong so that was you know which one i win the argument away do i did not read at all it wouldn't take warning lest the jerusalem post that would not the character in any of those failures i read the family thing that that way you could have a catch and started out doing his itinerary and it was it was hunting elephants that would have

real as you come upon any evidence that any of your material ever appeared in newspapers literally the only a situation that i can do and under that is that it's been publicized the cinemas the memo was forty two of his intellect and later what in their craw i do not recall seeing that memo but i do recall one instance in late nineteen seventy one the vampire indicate to me that the people at the muskie campaign headquarters were very much concerned and excited that an internal memo had been published in the paper it feel that that probably was a memo but i don't recall photographing

i conveyed my concern the injuries and again it was not our purpose to the furnishing any internal memorandum center mostly to newspaper in wales in if we would just an intelligence gathering operation nominations to william rehnquist visitors may i'm sure you're very familiar with oh did you read the hatch act for making

this activity i have read that have say when i read about that time well it was my feeling that day it was in this area and you know that check to reduce that there should be no one in an administrative position the united states of a problem the candidate's ear of age in the united states and i'll leave out including corporations to use his official with the percussive interfering with are affecting the election nomination of any candidate for the office of president last thursday president elect will i think what are

patients place that and i couldn't see earl's interfering with the election nomination the peanuts be the effort to look back over your activities mr buckley do you think that your activists were a waste of time to doing that the new activity is really any benefit which you began your activities that is not that was not as far as i'm concerned and why so much is not going on the nation and he'd been successful in nomination and when the time was wasted well what you're really we're getting that acted he wasn't to affect the campaign in seven months to affect his campaign my purpose

was please information concerning senator must decide whether position was on issues of the day and in that type of them well as you heard a word about whether or not we were in some way helped you think it was successful in the nineteen seventy two elections well i don't i don't feel it was helpful to the un to the election of the visitors are wonder why it took the job i mean that's it at you

and the map has any also to find on demonstrating anyway that reaction what did you think you were familiar with the president i suppose the idea that i thought well is furnishing furnishing a service to them that they needed otherwise it would've asked me to do it didn't seem possible in orson was his muslims at oracle of the iphone that i think in sixty seconds but that was

for the question like yo when you have contact with enormous newly elected to at least for a new kind of reason the heart how do you know you're not going to win that is your responsibility you too i'm renee

montagne the press releases and the attorney for the other infrequently were published in the press release for also in the senate go through these generations and to obtain it we are getting in i think so some of the press releases might get there earlier the internal documents assume would not of been public knowledge one is that is that is what i think your cellphone to work on global campaign what that material in a campaign organization turned over to some parishioners walked in off the street and says that they will help as oden we use of us to be a given in the documents that you saw were the things that were going through so that they were classified of course but a memo it a critical

memo of a gentleman who has a respectable point when i was a sensitive that not much privacy agreements and joe was not no my impression is that the box was given the helm when he came in in the morning and he'd merely kerry going to need to know how long he worked there before he was the unquestioned was not talking after three weeks and who in the organization not a name in particular but the ruined the organization turned the documents over to the opposition to the original i don't know i can't wait and thank you they were they were generally in the nature

of infiltration of penetration that their methods that i consider standard that i think most people in and political for years visitors the opposition the access to supply them with the most important that i suggest any others victoria as i can imagine some of this information will been public knowledge to discuss the possibility of deferment someone somali what would be public knowledge of

fourth mr musk is a position on the issues are concerned or anything like that or or you concerned about getting them were forced anybody else would i think the reason that i got to lie but i didn't examine that closely and i thought that they were getting any place else that they had known that the newly elected president had no access today mr metzer to canada last mr buckley it first came across an owner why despite placed in the musty office right now we're going to take a short break public television coverage of the senate watergate hearings will continue after this part for a station identification on average coverage of the hearings is being broadcast as a public service where local public television station this is

pbs a public broadcasting service it's been