PBS NewsHour; May 3, 2019 6:00pm-7:01pm PDT

>>Captiong sponsored by NEWSHOUR PRODUCTIONS, LLC

>> Woodruff: GOOD EVENINUF I'M JUDY WOO ON THE NEWSHOUR TONIGHT: EN, A NEW RULE REGULATINGM TISTOSTERONE LEVELS IN FEMALE ATHLETES RAISES QUS ABOUT THE RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN GENDER AND SPORTS. ANMA IT'S FRIDAY. SHIELDS AND DAVID BROOKS JOIN US TO TALK ABOUT ATTORNEY GENERAL WILLIAM BARR'S TESTIMONY AND LACK OF TESTIMONY, AND PRESIDENT TRUMP'S HOUR-LONG PHONE CALL WITH VLADIMIR PUTIN. US, LEGENDARY COUPLE OF AMERICAN MUSIC, GLORIA AND ISILIO ESTEFAN, ON THEIR DECADES-LONG ARTTIC AND ROMANTIC PARTNERSHIP.

>> WE'RE ON THE SAME PAG WE RARELY DIFFER WHEN IT COMES TO BUSINESS OR MUSIC. SO IYOU DON'T ARGUE A LOT, THAT REALLY MAKES IT FOR A GREAT, GREAT LIFE.

>> Woodruff: ALL THAT AND MORE ON TONIGHT'S PBS NSHOUR.

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>> Woodruff: A MONSTER GRADE-5 STORM HAS SLAMMED INTO INDIA'S EASTERN COASTLINE. CYCLONE MADE LANDFALL IN THE STATE OF ODISHA. WINDS GUSTING UP TO 127 MILES PER HOUR RIPPED THROUGH TREES AND SHATTERED GL WE WILL TAKE A CLOSER LOOK AT THE SCOPE OF THE DEVASTATION, GHT AFTER THE NEWS SUMMARY. HERE IN THE U.S., RECORD- BREAKING FLOODS IN THE MIDWEST N HA CLAIMED THE LIVES OF AT LEAST FOUR PEOPLE. IN IOWA, THE MISSISSIPPI RIVER SWELLED NEARLY 23 FEET IN DAVENPORT, BREAKING THE RECORD SET DURING THE GREAT FLOOD OF 1993. FLOODWATERS ALSO INUS ATED COMMUNITRTHER SOUTH IN BURLINGTON. MEANWHILE, IN DEARBORN HEIGHTS, MICHIGAN, FLASH FLOODING SUBMERGED CARS AS FAMILIES EVACUATED EIR HOMES. IN ECONOMIC NEWS, THE U.S. JOB MARKET SHATTERED EXPECTATIONS IN APRIL. THE LABOR DEPARTMENT REPORTED THAT U.S. EMPLOYS ADDED A NET 263,000 JOBS LAST MONTH. MEANWHILE, THE UNEMPLOYMENT RATE FELL TO A FIVE-DECADE LOW OF 3.6%, DOWN FROM 3.8%. WAGES ROSE 3.2% OVER LAST YEAR. THE PRESIDENT'S TOP ECONOMIC COMEDER, LARRY KUDLOW, W THE ROBUST JOBS REPORT TODAY OUTSIDE THE WHITE HOUSE.

>> THE STRENGTH IN JOBS AND WAGES IS COMING FROM THE MIDDLE AND THE LOWER MIDDLE. IT'S THE BLUE COLLARS. IT'S WHAT I CALL MAIN STREET.RE AND TO IE IN WAGES, SIMILARLY-- NOT THE LEVEL, MIND YOU, BUT THE INCREASE-- IS MUCH FASTER THAN WHITE COLLARS.

>> Woodruff: TODAY'S BETTER- THAN-EXPECTED JOBS REPORT SENT STOCKS SOARING ON WALL STREET. THE DOW JONES INDUSTRIAL AVERAGE GAINED 197 POINTS TO CLOSE AT. 26,5 , THE NASDAQ ROSE 127 POIND REE S&P 500 ADDED 28. ALSO TODAY, VICEDENT PENCE JOINED PRESIDENT TRUMP IN CALLING FOR THE FEDERARVE TO LOWER INTEREST RATES ON UNT OF THE STRONG ECONOM PRESIDENT TRUMP SPOKE BY PHONE WITH RUSSI PRESIDENT VLADIMIR PUTIN TODAY, FOR MORE THAN AN HOUR. HE SAID THEY DID NOT DISCUSS TENTIAL RUSSIAN MEDDLING IN THE 2020 ELECTIONS. BUT MR. TRUMP TOLD REPORTERS IN THE OVAL OFFICE THE TWO DID LSPEAK ABOUT SPECIAL COUN ROBERT MUELLER'S REPORT ON RUSSIAN ELECTION INTERFERENCE.

>> WE DISCUSSED IT. HE ACTUALLY SORT OF SMILED, WHEN HE SAID SOMETHING THE EFFECT OF, THAT IT STARTED OFF AS A MOUNTAIN, AND IT ENDED UP BEING A MOUSE. BUT HE KNEW THAT, BECAUSE THERE WAS NO COLLUSION WHATSOEVER.

>> Woodruff: PRESIDENT TRUMP SAID MUCH OF THEIR PHONE CALL FOCUSED ON THE POLITICAL CRISIS IN VENEZUELA, AND HE CLAIMED THAT PUTIN WAS NOT LOOKING TO GET INVOLVED. THAT CONTRADICTED COMMENTS U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE MIKE POMPEO MADE TUESDAY, BLAMING RUSSIA FOR CONVINCING VENEZUELAN PRESIDENT NICOLAS MADURO TO REMAIN IN VENEZUELA. MOSCOW BACKS THE MADURO REGIME, WHILE THE U.S. SUPPORTSTI OPPO LEADER JUAN GUAIDO. HOUSE JUDICIARY CHAIRMAN JERET NADLER HAS NEW MONDAY DEADLINE FOR ATTORNEY GENERAL BELLIAM BARR TO HAND OVER SPECIAL COUNSEL MUELLER'S FULL, UNREDACTED REPORT. IN A LETTER, NADLER THED TO HOLD BARR IN CONTEMPT IF HE DOESN'T COMPLY WITH THE REQUEST. THE DEATH TOLL FROM THE EBOLA OUTBREAK IN EASTERN HAS NOW SURPASSED 1,000 PEOPLE. THE COUNTRY'S HEALTH MINISTER SAID ATTACKS ON TREATMENT CEERS HAVE UNDERMINED CONTAINMENT EFFORTS. 85 HEALTH WORKERS HAVE BEEN D OR KILLED SINCE JANUAR THE OUTBREAK BEGAN BACK IN AUGUST, AND IS THE SECOND DEADLIEST IN HISTORY. IN BRITAIN, THERE HAS BEEN A BREXIT BACKLASH AT THE POLLS, Y'TH NEARLY ALL THE VOTES TALLIED FROM THURSLOCAL ELECTIONS. MORE THAN 1,300 OF PRIME MINISTER THERESA MAY'S CONSERVATIVES LOST THEIR SEATS, ALONG WITH OVER LAWMAKERS FROM THE OPPOSITION LABOUR PARTY. MEANWHILE THE PRO-EUROPEAN UNION LIBERAL DEMOCRATS WON MORE THAN 700 SEATS IN THE PARTY'S BEST SHOWING SINCE 2004. ITS LEADER HAILED THE OUTCOME.

>> WELL, I'M JUST CELEBRATING A REALLY GREAT RESULT HERE, CHELMSFORD ESSEX. I BUT THTHE STORY ACROSS THE COUNTRY, YOU KNOW, THE LIBERAL DEMOCRATS WERE WTTEN OFF AT E POINT, BUT WE'RE COMING BACK VERY, VERY STRONGLY. EVERY VOTE TO THE LIBERAL V DEMOCRATS ISE FOR STOPPING AMEXIT. ABSOLUTELY CLEAR, GUOUS, HONEST.

>> Woodruff: PRIME MINISTER THERESA MAY CONCEDED THE ELECTION RESULTS HAVE SENT A MESSAGE TO THE CONSERVATIVE AND LABOUR PARTIES TO "JUST GET ON AND DELIVER BREXIT." A FEDERAL COURT IN CINCINNATI HAS RULED THAT OHIO'S CONGRESSIONAL MAP IS UNCONSTITUTIONAL. IT DETERMINED THAT THE DISTRICTI BOUN WERE MANIPULATED BY REPUBLICAN MAPMAKERS TO THEIR ADVANTAGE, AND ORDERED THE MAP BE REDRAWN FOR THE 2020 ELECTIONS. AND, A PASSING TO NOTE. PETER MAYHEW, THE BRITISH-BORN ACTOR MADE FAMOUS FOR HIS ROLE AS CHEWBACCA IN THE ORIGINAL "STAR WARS" FILMS, HAS DIED. THE FURRY WOOKIE WARRIOR WAS THE LOYAL COMPANION TO HARRISON FORD'S HAN SOLO. THOUGH MAYHEW WAS ALWAYS IN COSTUME, HIS GUTTURAL ROARS BECAME ICONI PETER MAYHEW WAS 74 YEARS OLD. STILL TO COME ON THE NEWSHOUR: A DEADLY CYCLONE MAKES LANDFALL OVER COASTAL INDIA. NEW REVELATIONS ABOUT THE F.B.I.'S COUNTER-INTELLIGENCE INVESTIGATION OF THE TRUMP CAMPAIGN. THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION EXPANDS THE RIGHTS OF HEALTH CAREWO ERS TO DENY TREATMENT ON RELIGIOUS GROUNDS. AND, MUCH MORE.

>> Woodruff: WE RETURN TO OUR TOP STORY, THE ENORMOUS CYCLONE THAT SLAMMED INTO NORTHEASTERN INDIA TODAY. WHIPPING THE REGION WITH LASHING WIND AND TORRENTIAL RAIN BEFORE MOVING INTO NEIGHBORING BANGLADESH, IT WAS THE WORST STORM TO HIT THE AREA IN TWO DECADES. CYCLONE FANI LASHED INDIA'S EAST COAST FRIDAY WITH PROLIFIC STRCE. NED WINDS OF 127 MILES AN HOURATTERED COASTAL AREAS, DESTROYED HOMES, TORE APART ROOFS, TOPPLED ELECTRICAL LINES AND KNOCKED OUT POWER ACROSS THE REGION.

>> ( translated ): THIS ONE IS THE MOST SEVERE TROPICAL CYCLONES I'VE EXPERIENCED.

>> Woodruff: THE STORM CAME ASHORE FRIDAY MORNING NEAR THE TOWN OF PURI AS AN EXTREMELY SEVERE CYCLONE. IT IS NOW TRACKING NORTHEAST PAST KOLKATA AND TOWARDBA NORTLADESH. INLAND, DRIVING WINDS SHATTERED GLASS DOORS AND WINDOWS AT A LOCAL COLLEGE. GUSTS EVEN TOPPLED THIS CRANE ONTO NEARBY HOUSES. INDIAN OFFICIALS SAY UNPRECEDENTED EVACUATION EFFORTS HAVE BEEN UNDERWAY. SOME 1.2 MILLION PEOPLE HAVE BEEN FORCED FROM THEIR HOMES IN LOW-LYING AREAS TO 4,000 TEMPORARY SHELTERS.

>> ( translated ): THE SITUATION IS VERY BAD. THERE ARE NO ARRANGEMENTS. WE ONLY HAVE A PLACE TO STAY.

>> Woodruff: TRANSIT ACROSS THE REGION IS DISRUPTED AS WELL.IN RAIL CLOSED AND AT LEAST 200 TRAINS WERE CANCELED ACROSS INDIA, LEAVING TRAVELERS STRANDED.ed

>> ( transl ): SINCE LAST NIGHT, WE HAVE BEEN SITTING HERE. G. ARE NOT GETTING ANY TRAIN. WE ARE JUST SITT AND OUR MONEIS ALSO GONE. WHAT DO WE DO?

>> Woodruff: IN KOLKATA, THE MAJOR REGIONAL AIRPORT CLOSED FOR A TIME. IN SOME PLACES, RESIDENTS HAVE GONE OUT TO CLEAR FALLEN TREES. RELIEF EFFORTS ARE UNDERWAWITH MORE THAN 50 RESCUE TEAMS DISPATCHED. INDIA'S COAST GUARD IS OUT DISTRIBUTING AID TO SURVIVORS VIA HELICOPTER AND SHIP. THE NAVY, AIR FORCE AND ARMY ON HIGH ALERT. THE STORCAME IN THE MIDDLE OF HE MOST DEVASTATING CYCLONE IN RECENT MEMORY TO HIT INDIA LANDED IN 1999.WI TH HEAVY RAIN AND WINDS MORE THAN 170 MILES AN HOUR, IT KILLED 10,000 PEOPLE. WITH BANGLADESH IN THIS STORM'S PATH, 60 MILLION PEOPLE ARE POTENTIAL TARGETS. AUTHORITIES THERE HAVE ALREADY EVACUATED 400,0000 TO SHELTERS. SNIGDHA CHAKRABORTY IS THE BANGLADESH COUNTRY MANAGER FOR CATHOLIC RELIEF SERVICES. SHE SAYS THE NATION FACES SEVERE FLOOD RISK, ESPECIALLY IN LOW- LYING AREAS.

>> ( translated ): THE RAINS HAVE ALREADY STARTED AND THEER DIKES, THE RIKES ARE ALREADY GETTING DAMAGED BECAUSE OF THE HIGH RISE IN THE WATER IN THE RIVER. THE PRIMARY AIM NOW IS TO HEACUATE THE PEOPLE TO THE S FEST CYCLONE SERS.

>> Woodruff: SHE SE MORE THAN ONE MILLION ROHINGYA NGREFUGEES FROM MYANMAR LIN BANGLADESH ARE ALSO AT RISK. THEYIVE IN MAKESHIFT HOUSING AT CAMPS IN COX'S BAZAAR AND WILL YET AIN HAVE TO RELOCATE.

>> ( translated ): THEY'RE ALREADY LIVING IN SORT OF TEMPORARY SHELTERS, ALTHOUGH RE STRONG ENOUGH FOR THE TIME BEING. BUT IT WILL ALSO GIVE THEM A MENTAL STRESS AND KIND OF ANXIETY OF HOW THEY WILL LIVEAI

>> Woodruff: AS THE CYCLONE MOVES NORTHEAST THIS WEEKEND, HEAVY RAIN AND STRONG WINDS ARE EXPECTED TO PERSIST.

>> Woodruff: AFTER MONTHS OF PRESIDENT TRUMP ACCUSING THE U.S. GOVERNMENT OF SPYING ON HI6 AMPAIGN, THE PRESIDENT RESPONDED POSITIVELY THURSDAY TO A STORY FROM THE "NEW YORK TIMES" WITH NEW DETAILS ON THE F.B.I.'S EFFORT TO COVERTLY GATHER INFORMATION FROM A TRUMP CAMPAIGN ADVISER. WE'RE JOINED BY ONE OF THE ARTICLE'S REPORTERS, ADAM GOLDMAN. HE COVERS THE F.B.I. AND NATIONAL SECURITY FOR THE "NEW YORK TIMES." ADAM GOLDMAN, WELCOME AGAIN TO THE "NewsHour". SO TELL US ON WHAT BASIS IT WAS -- THE STORY SAUL ABOUT AN F.B.I. INVESTIGATOR MEETING COVERTLY WITH A TRUMP CAMPAIGN ADVISOR. S, HOW DID THIS COME ABOUT? HOW UNUSUAL WAS IT?

>> I DON'T THINK IT'S VERY UNUSUAL THE F.B.I. BELIEVES HIERE'S WRONGDOING, NEED TO GET TO THE BOTTOM OF TYPICALLY, MIGHT SEND AN INVESTIGATOR LIKE THIS WOMAN IN ALONGSIDE AN INFORMANT TO FIGURE OUT WHAT HAPPENED, AND THAS EXACTLY WHAT THEY WERE TRYING TO DO. THE F.B.I. WAS TRYING TO UNDERSTAND, YOU KNOW, WASEORGE PADOPOULOS, THIS CAMPAIGN ADVISOR FOR TRUMP, IN SOME WAY WORKING FOR THE RUSSIANS? AND THEY THOUGHT THAT BECAUSE THEY RECEIVED AN ALLEGATION THAT, IN FACT, HE WAS. SOHEY MOVED QUICKLY AND AGGRESSIVELY TO TRY TO FIGURE OUT, BEFORE THE ELECTION ENDED, WAS HE, IN FACT, WORKING WITH THE RUSSIANS.

>> Woodruff: WHAT WAS THE BASIS THEY WERE USING? WHAT EVIDENCE DID THEY HAVE THAT THERE WAS A REASON TO TRY TO GET IN AND KNOW MORE ABOUT WHAT HE WAS UP TO?

>> AT ITS CORE, THE AUSTRALIAN GOVERNMENT PROVIDED INFORMATION THAT GEORGE -- THAT THE RUSSIANS HAD ESSENTIALLY MADE GEORGE PAPADOPOULOS AN AWFUL, SAYING THEY HAD HACKED E-MAILS -- DEMOCRATIC E-MAILS, AND THEY COULD HELP HIM RELEASE THEM ANDT COORDINA TIMING OF THAT. H AND PAPADOPOUL TOLD THAT TO THE AUSTRALIAN AMBASS IOR AT THE TILONDON, AND THAT INFORMATION WAS RELAYED TO THE ERB.I. MONTHS LIN FACT. AND TH WAS THE GENESIS OF THE F.B.I.'S RUSSIA INVESTIGATION KNOWN AS CROSSRE HARKIN.

>> Woodruff: IN TERMS OFNS PARTICF SOMEBODY WHO FOLLOWS THE F.B.I. ALL THE TIME, WHAT'S THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN INVESTIGATING SOMEONE AS TY DID IN THIS CASE AND THEY ACKNOWLEDGE IT, AND SPAG ON HEMEONE, WHICH IS THE TERM ATTORNEY GENERAL USED AT ONEPO T AND THE PRESIDENT IS USING?

>> I MEAN, YOU TYPICALLY DON'T HEAR LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICIALS USE THE WORD "SPYING." YOU KNOW, IT'S COURT-ORDERED OR COURT-APPROVED SURVEILLANCE. THAT SEEMS TO HAVE BECOME A LOADED TERM, A PEJATIVE TERM. YOU KNOW, ATTORNEY GENERAL WILLIAM BARR SAID EARLIER THIS WEEK THAT IT WAS A FINE ENGLISH WORD, AND HE HAD NO PROBLEMS USING IT, BUT FOR CRITICS OF TRUMP, THEY SEE THIS AS A WAY TO, YOU KNOW, DELEGITIMIZE, YOU KNOW, THE F.B.I.'S EFFORTS TO TRY TO FIGURE OUT WHAT WAS GOING ON IN REALLY HE CAN TICK PERI BEFORE THE ELECTION.

>> Woodruff: WELL, AS YOU SAY,E UMP ADMINISTRATION ATTEMPTING, MANY OF THEM, TO SA THAT TS NOT A LEGITIMATE MOVE ON THE PART OF THE F.B.I.AD WHO WOULD HAVEO APPROVE IT BEFORE IT TOOK PLACE?

>> AND THIS WAS A SENSITIVE NDERATION TAKING PLACE IN AND, AS I'VE SAID, THE BRITISH AUTHORITIES WERE NOTIFIED, M.I.5, AND THAT WOULD HAVE GONE TO THE HIGHEST LEVELS OF THE BURE AND THE JUSTICE PARTMENT ITSELF. THIS WAS A VERY, VERY SENSITIVE OPERATION THEY WERE RUNNING IN LONDON, AND A LOT OF PEOPLE WOULD HAVE KNOWN ABOUT IT AND IT S ULD HAVE REQUIRED APPROV THE HIGHEST LEVELS OF THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT.

>> Woodruff: IN OTHER WORDS, MULTIPLE LAYERS OF AUTHORIZATION, WHICH MAKES IT EASIER OR HARDER FOR IT TO HAVE BEEN POLITICALLY MOTIVATED.

>> RIGHT, EXACTLY. WITH CAREER PROSECUTORS MAKING THOSE DECISION YOU KNOW, THE INSPECTOR GENERAL OF THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT IS LOOKING AT WHAT HAPPENED IN LONDON AND THE USE OF THIS INFORMANT WHO THE F.B.I. DEPLOYED TO BRUSH UP AGAINST PAPADOPOULOS AND, AS PART OF THAT, THEY WILL PROBABLY LOOK AT THIS GOVERNMENT INVESTIGATOR AND NG, TOO. WAS D ULTIMATELY, THE I.G. WILL COME DOWN AND SAYHETHER THIS WAS INAPPROPRIATE OR NOT. SO FAR, BODY'S PROVIDED IDENCE THAT IT WAS SOMEHOWOR ILLEGANJUSTIFIED.

>> Woodruff: ADAM GOLDMAN WITHTI THE "NEW YORS" ON A STORY THAT'S GETTING A LOT OF ATTENTION. THANK YOU, ADAM.

>> Woodruff: STAY WITH US. COMING UP ON THE NEWSHOUR: NEW QUESTIONS ABOUT THE RELATIONSHIP BWEEN GENDER AND SPORTS. MARK SHIELDS AND DAVID BROOKS ANALYZE THE WEEK IN WASHINGTON. PLUS, GLORIA AND EMILIONESTEFAN HEIR SHARED LIFE IN THE MUSIC BUSINESS. FOR MANY YEARS, BOTH POLITICAL PARTIES HAVE AGREED TO EXEMPT SOME HEALTH CARE WORKERS FROM PROVIDING CARE AND PERFORMING CERTAIN PROCEDURES THEY JECT TO ON RELIGIOUS OR MORAL GROUNDS. THAT CAN INCLUDE ABORTIONS AND STERILIZATIO. BUT AS AMNA NAWAZ TELLS US, PRESIDENT TRUMP HAS GONE FURTHER THAN HIS PREDECEORS BY ISSUING A COMPLEX AND MORE COMPREHENSIVE RULE ALLOWING FOR THESE EXEMPTIONS.

>> Nawaz: JUDY, THE PRESIDENT ANNOUNCED THE NEW RULE TIED TOON THE NA DAY OF PRAYER. CONSERVATIVE GROUPS WELCOMED WHAT THEY CALL "CONSCIENCE PROTECTIONS." BUT, WOMEN'S GROUPS, L.G.B.T.Q. ADVOCATES AND OTHERS ARE WARNING THE RULE COULD REDUCE SERVICES AND LEAD TO DISCRIMINATION AGAINST TRANSGENDER PATIENTS AND OTHERS, AND POTENTIALLY HARM PATIENTS IF PROVIDERS REFUSE TO DELIVER CERTAIN CARE, OR TREAT PEOPLE. UNDER THIS NEW RULE, HOSPITALS, CLINICS AND OTHER INSTITUTIONS MUST COMPLY WITH 25 LAWS THAT ARE PART OF THIS IN ORDER TO RECEIVE FUNDING FROM FEDERAL PROGRAMS SUCH AS MEDICARE AND MEDICAID. MARGOT SANGER-KATZ WRITES ABOUT HEALTH CARE FOR THE "NEW YORK TIMES." WELCOME TO THE "NewsHour". SO YOU'VE DESCRIBED THES TO MY COLLEAS AN EXPANSION OF EXIST RULES, BOTH THE CATEGORY HI WORKERS AND THE WAYS IN THEY CAN OBJECT. EXPLAIN THAT TO ME.

>> SO THERE HAVE BEEN RULES PROTECTING PRACTITNERS WHEN THEY OBJECTS TO PERF PROCEDURES, AN ABORTION, SAY, BUT THIS WIPEDDENS THE CATEGORY OF PERSON N HAVE THE OBJECTION, INCLUDING THE SCHEDULER IN MEDICAL OFFICE, ALL THE WAY UP THROUGH THE BOARD OF DIRECTORS OF A HOSPITAL THAT MIGHT SAY THIS HOSPITAL WILL NOT PERFORM CERTAIN SERVICES, WILL NOT OFFER THEM TO OUR PATITS. SO THE KINDS OF GROUPS OF PEOPLE WHO CAN OBJECT TO THINGS ON A CONSCIOUS BASIS HAVE GROWN. THE OTHER THING THIS RULE DOES SIT PROVIDES MORE ENFORCEMENT PROCESSES AND MORE PUNISHMENT. IF A HOSPITAL FAILS TO PROTECT THE RIGHTS OF ITS RELIGIOUS WORKER, THEN IT COULD BE PUNISHED PRETTY SUBSTANTIALLY, POTENTIALLY LOSING A LOT OF ITS FEDERAL FUNDING.

>> SO, OBVIOUSLY, CRITICS OF THE RULE, OPPONENTS TO IT, SAY THIS MEANS THERE ARE LOTS OF WAYS PEOPLE CAN DISCRIMINATE AGAINSTI CECATEGORIES OF COMMUNITIES. WHAT ARE SOME OF THE EXAMPLES THAT THEY CITE AS PLACES WHERE C PEOPLE CE IN CONTACT WITH THE HEALTHCARE SYSTEM AND BE DENIED SERVICES THEY SHOULD GET.

>> SO I THINK THERE ARE A LOT OF CONCERNS. WE DON'T KNOW EXACTLY HOW THIS IS GOING TO PLAY OUT ON THE GROUND, BUT THE WORRY IS CERTAIN KIND OF PATIENTS MAY BE DENIEDHE CARE BECAUSEEALTHCARE WORKERS TREATING THEM HAVE RELIGIOUS COSAICTIONS THAT EE WITH CERTAIN ASPECTS OF THEIR LIFESTYLE. C THERE ISCERN A DOCTOR WOULD NOT WANT TO TREAT A CHILD OF A GAY COUPLE BECAUSE THEY HAVE A RELIGIOUS OBJECTION TO GAY MARRIAGE,O A LOT OF CONCERNS TRANSGENDER PATIENTS MAY HE DIFFICULTY ACCESSING SERVICES. THE RULE MAKES REFERENCE TO OLD LAWS FROM THE 1970s THAT PROTECT WORKERS WHO DON'T WANT TO PARTICIPATE IN STERILIZATION, SUGGESTS THAT SORT OF SERVICES TRANSGENDER PEOPLE RECEIVE MAY BE CONSIDERED AS STERILIZATION WHICH TRANSGENDER ADVOCATES SAY IS A STRETCH OF WHAT THE LAW WAS MEANT TO DO.

>>DO.TE WHAT IF PING SOMEONE'S RELIGIOUS FREEDOM MEANS THEY'RE DISCRIMINATING AGAINST ANOTHER GROUP. HOW DO YOU RESOLVE AGAINST THE CONFLICT?HI

>> I IT'S AN INTEREST QUESTIONING BECAUSE THESE ARE BOTH CIL RIGHTS QUESTIONS THAT ARE SUPPOSED TO PROTECT PATIENCE AND PREVENT THEM FROM BEING A SUBJECTS OF DISCRINATION BECAUSE OF THEIR STATUS OR THEIR FACTS OR OTHER -- SEX OR OTHER ASPECTS OF THEIR PERSON, BUT ALSO THE CONCERN OF THE CIVIL RIGHTS OF THE HEALTHCARE WORKERS WHO SHOULDN'T BE FORCED TO DO THINGS THAT INTERFERE WITH THEIR RELIGIOUS CONVICTIONS, AND I THINK THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION A THROUGH THION AND A SERIES OF OTHER ACTIONS HAVE SILL GHILED THEY'RE MUCH MORE WORRIED ABOUT THE CIVIL OF THE RELIGIOUS PERSON IN A HEALTHCARE SETTING THAN THEY ARE THE CIVIL RIGHTS OF THE PATIENT DING BEING DENIED CARE. THDETAILS OF HOW THIS WOUL WORK OUT IN ANY INDIVIDUAL CASE WE WILL VE TO SEE. YOU CAN IMAGINE, FOR EXAMPLE, A SITUION IN WHICH BOTH PARTIE MAY HAVE A LEGAL CASE TO BRING FORWARD IN THE WAY ICHTSZ RESOLVED.

>> SAN FRANCISCO MIDDLE EAST SUED THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION. THE RULE IS SCHEDULED TO GO INTO EFFECT 60 DAYS AFTER PUBLISHED IN THE FEDERALEGISTER. WHAT DO WE EXPECT TO HAPPEN NEXT? WILL THIS T CAUGHT UP IN A LEGAL BATTLE AND NEVER BE IMPLEMENTED?T'

>> I THINK TPOSSIBLE. THERE ARE A NUSM OF HEALTHCARE IBS TUESDAYS AND MUNICIPALITIES LIKE SAN FRANCISCO THAT ARE WORRIED ABOUT THIS RULE PROTENSIONLY INTERFERING WITH SOME OF THEIR PRACTICES AND IT COULD BE STOPPED BEFORE IT GOES INTO EFFECT. WE'VE SEEN THAT WITH OTHER TRUMP-RELATED ACTIONS ONE HAVING TO DO WITH FAMILY PLANNING GRANTS, WHERE HEALTHCARE WERE PROVIDING ABORTIONS IN THE FAMILY PLANNING EVENTS. SO THIS MAY BE CAUGHT UP IN THE COURTS BEFORE WE SEE IT ON THE GROUND.

>> MARGOT SANGER-KATZ OF THE "NEW YORK TIMES." THANK YOU FOR BEING HERE.

>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.

>> Woodruff: ALL OVER THE WORLD TODAY, MEN AND WOMEN COMPETEN HIGH-LEVEL ATHLETICS. BUT TO KEEP COMPETITION FAIR, THEY ALMOST ALWAYS COMPETE SEPARATELY. THE WORLD'S SPORTING ORGANIZATIONS ARGUE THERE'S A CLEAR, DISTINGUISHABLE LINXE BETWEEN THE BUT, AS WILLIAM BRANGHAM REPORTS,HE CASE OF ONE FEMALE SOUTH AFRICAN RUNNER, OLYMPIC GOLD MEDALIST CAST SEMENYA, HAS BLURRED THAT LINE.

>> AND NO ONE CLOSE TO SENYA!

>> Brangham: CASTOR SEMENYA BLEW AWAY THE COMPETITION TODAY AT AN 800-METER RACE IN DOHA. IT WAS THE TWO-TIME OLYMPICST CHAMPION'S FIRACE SINCE SHE LOST A CRUCIAL COURT RULING THIS WEEK THAT PUT HER DEAD CENTER IN THE BATE OVER EQUALITY AND GENDER IN ELITE SPORTS. IT WAS ALSO PERHAPS HER LAST RACE BEFORE NEW RULES TAKE EFFECT THAT COULD PREVENT HER OM EVER RUNNING PROFESSIONALLY AGAIN. BUT TODAY, SHE SAID SHE JUST WANTED TO INSPIRE OTHERS.

>> AT THE END OF THE DAY, IT'S ALL ABOUT INSPIRING THE WORLD, YOU KNOW. SHOWING THE WORLD, YOU KNOW, IT'S POSSIBLE IF YOU BELIEVE. A

>> Brangham:ERO IN HER NATIVE SOUTH AFRICA, SEMENYA HAS DRAWN ATTENTION FOR YEARS-- NOT JUST FOR HER BLAZING SPEED, BUT BECAUSE SHE REPORTEDLY HAS WHATN ARN AS INTER-SEX TRAITS, WHICH GIVE HER ELEVATED LEVELSER OF TESTOE. SEMENYA IS NOT TRANSGENDER.AL SHE WAS BORN F BUT SHE'S LONG FACED QUESTIONS ABOUT HER GENDER. NO ONE HAS ARGUED SHE HAS CHEATED, BUT SOME COMPETIT HS ARGUE THATIGHER TESTOSTERONEVE S HER AN UNFAIR ADVANTAGE. THIS WEEK, THE HIGHEST COURT I INTERNATIONAL SPORFE, RULED THAT LE ATHLETES WITH ELEVATED LEVELS OF TESTOSTERONE MUST TAKE HORMONE SUPPRESSANTS TO COMPETE IN CERTAIN RACES SEMENYA SAYS SHE DOESN WANT TO ED THAT, AND SHOULDN'T BE TO. THE COURT ACKNOWLEDGED RULING DISCRIMINATED AGAINST SEMENYA AND OTHERS, BUT IT SAID IT'S "NECESSARY, REASONABLE AND PROPORTIONATE MEANS" OF PRESERVING T "INTEGRITY OF FEMALE ATHLETICS." THE SECRETARY GENERAL OF TRACK AND FIELD'S GOVERNING BODY DEFENDED THAT POSITION THIS WINTER.

>> THE REGULATIONS THAT WE ARE INTRODUCING ARE THERE TO PROTECT THE SANCTITY OF FAIR AND OPEN COMPETITION, AND THAT'S REALLY WHAT WE ARE HERE TO DEFEND.

>> Brangham: THAT POSITION HAS BEEN HEAVILY CRITICIZED BYANY AS MISGUIDED. SEMENYA WAS ASKED ABOUT HER FUTURE AFTER HER VICTORY TODAY:

>> LAST ONE-- WHAT HAPPENS FOR YOU NOW?

>> I KEEP TRAINING. I KEEP RUNNING. DOESN'T MATTER. IF SOMETHING COMES IN FRONT OF MENDLIKE I SAID, I ALWAYS FI WAY TO COME JUMP IT.

>> Brangham: IT REMAINS TO BEHE SEENER SEMENYA WILL APPEAL THAT COURT RULING, OR START TAKING THE HORMONE SUPPRESSANT T DRUGS IN ORDCONTINUE S CING. FOR MORE ON SEMENYSE, AND WHAT IT MEANS FOR THE SPORTING WORLD, I'M JOINED NOW BY MADELEINE PAPE. E'S A FORMER TRACK AND FIELD OLYMPIAN. SHE REPRESENTED HER HOME COUNTRY OF AUSTRALIA IN THE 2008 BEIJING OLYMPICS, AND IN OTHER INTERNATIONAL COMPETITIONS. SHE'S NOW WORKING ON A SOCIOLOGY Ph.D FOCUSING ON GENDER AT THE UNIVERSITY OF WISCONSIN, MADISON.HR AND,TINE BRENNAN, SPORTS COLUMNIST FOR "USA TODAY," AND A REGULAR GUEST ON THE NEWSHOUR. THANK YOU BOTH VERY MUCH FOR BEING HERE. MADELINE, TO YOU FIRST, YOU HAVG RACENST SEMENYA AND YOU HAVE A SENSE OF HOW FAST AND WHAT A REMARKABLE ATHLETE SHE . WHAT DID YOU MAKE OF THIS RULING SAYING, IF SHE WANTS TO EP RACING, SHE HAS TO START TAKING UGS TO SUPPRESS TESTOSTERONE.

>> I WAS DISAPPOINTED WITH THE DECISION BY THE COURT OF ASH ORB ARBITRATION. SHE HAS BEEN ON A JOURNEY AT THE INTERNATIONAL LEVEL AND THE SPORT HAS BEEN ON A JOURNEY. CONTRARY TO HOW THIS IS REPRESENTED SOMETIMES, THERE ACTUALLY IS A GREAT DIVERSITY OF OPINION ABOUT THIS TOPIC, AND A LOT OF PEOPLE HAVE CHANGED THEIR VIEWS ABOUT SEX AND TESTOSTERONE. SO I WAS REALLY HOPING THATUL SEMENYA BE THE ATHLETE THAT WOULD PUT AN END TO THESES KIND OF PRACTI SPORTS AND THE COURT WOULD MAKEING. THE WHAT DO YOU THINK T COURT SPECIFICALLY GOT WRONG?

>> IT'S DIFFICULWETO SAY BECAUSE ON'T HAVE A FULL ACCOUNT OF HOW THE COURT MADE IIN DECISION. I THERE ARE SOME QUESTIONS, THOUGH, THAT REMAIN UNANSWERED. FOR EXAMPLE, WHY IS IT THAT THE RULES APPLY TO THE 1600 METERS AND A MILE, EVEN THOUGH THE COURT ACKNOWLEDGED THAT THERE IS SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE TO ILLUSTRATE THE RELATIOHIP BETWEEN TESTOSTERONE AND ATHLETIC ABILITY IN THOSE EVENTS. I THINK THAT HAS GONE UNANSWERED, AND I ALSO THINK THERE HAS TO BE MORE DISCUSSION OF THE SCIENTIFIC DEBATES THAT CONTINUE TO SURROUND THE IDEA THAT TESTOSTERONE HAS A CLEAR RELATIONSHIP TO ATHLETIC ABILITY. THAT SCIENTIFIC DISCUSSION IS ONGOING, AS WE'VE SEEN IN THE LAST FEW DAYS.

>> CHRISTINE, THE COURT CLEARLY RULED THE SCIENCE IS CLEAR. CONTRARY TO WHAT MADELINE IS SAYING, THEY ARGUE SCIENCE SHOWS HIRING LEVELS OF TESTOSTERONE CONFERS AN ADVANTAGE. BUT THE COURT BASICALLY ACKNOWLEDGED THAT, YES, WE ARE DISCRIMINATING AGAINST WOMAN, BUT WE'RE DOING IT TO PROTECT THE INTEGRHLY OF WOMEN'S ICS MORE BROADLY. WHAT DO YOU MAKE OF THAT?

>> FIRST OF ALL, WE CANNOT SAYH IT ENOW TERRIBLY CASTERAT SEMENYA HAIR T ESPECIALLY BY THE I.A.A.F. THIS IS A WOMAN OF INCE IN HER COUNTRY, A WOMAN OF COLOR IN BUTH AFRICA, AND FOR HER DRAGGED THROUGH TEN YEARS, BASICALLY, OF UNCERTAINTY, WHEN SHE WAS BORN THIS WAY, IS ASTOUNDING, AND THE LACK OF LEADERSHIP THERE IS REMARKABLE. HAVING SAID THAT, THIS IS ATI CONVER THAT I THINK WE'RE GOING TO BE HAVING FOR THE NEXT 30, 40, 50 YEARS, A CONVERSATIOO ABOUT EXACTL, A LEVEL OF TESTOSTERONE THAT WE WOULD LIKE ANTO SEE ALLOWED IN WOMEN' GIRLS' SPORTS. WITH CASTER SEMENYA, SHE WAS BORN THIS WAY, BUT --

>> CRUCIAL TO KEEP SAYING THAT. SHE DID NOTHING TO CHANGE. THIS IS HOW SH

>> I'VE WRITTEN COLUMNS DEFENDING HER, ABSOLUTELY.TH BUIMPORTANT POINT, IS THERE IS A LARGER CONVERSATION, AND THIS MAY WELL BE, AS A JOURNALIST COVERING THE OLYMPICS FOR 30-SOME YEARS, THIS MAY WELL BE, WILLIAM, A STORY THAT THEN JUMPS INTO THE WORLD OF TRANSGENDER PARTICIPATION IN SPORTS. THIS IS A TOPIC AND CONVERSATION THAT WILL BE DISCUSSED AT DINNER TABLES, SUPERMARKETS, WHAT WE WANT IN TERMS OF GIRLS AND WOMEN'S SPORTS. WE'VE MADE THE CLASSIFICATION THAT GIRLS AND WOMEN'S SPORTS ARE DIFFERENT THAN BOYS AND MEN'S SPORTS. WE HAVE MADE THATAS FICATION. SO HOW DO WE THEN PURSUE THESE ISSUES, ESPECIALLY AT A TIME WHERE WE'RE LOOKING AT THEN SIERNTD I THINK THAT'S WHY THIS RULING WAS IMPORTANT AND DISCRIMINATION, AGAIINST CASTER SEMENYA IS SO UNFORTUNATE. THERE IS A LARGER POOL HERE TO ALSO LOOK AT AND TO WONDER ABOUT DISCRIMINATION AGAINST THOSE ATHLETES.

>> MADELINE, AS CHRISTINE IS SAYING, WE DID, ONCE UPON A TIME, DECIDE THAT BOYS AND GIRLS ATHLETICS SHOULD BE SEPARATE A BECAUSE THERE ESIRE TO HAVE A MORE LEVEL PLAYING FIELD. CASTER SEMENYA'S CASE FORCES US TOEALLY RECONSIDER THAT.

>> YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT, AND I THINK -- I APPRECIATED CHRISTISA NG THAT. I THINK ONE OF SEMENYA'S LEGACIES IS GOING TO BE THAT SHE HAS LED US TOWARDS THIS CONVERSATION AND THIS REFLECTION ON HOW WE FEEL ABOUT SEX AND TESTOSTERONE AS IT RELATES TO SPORTS. I THINK IN RESPONSE TO CHRISTINE'S ANSWER EARLIER, IT'S IMPORTANT TO BE CLEAR THAT TRANSGENDER WOMEN ANWOMEN WITH HIGH TESTOSTERONE ARE SUBJECT TO DISTINCT SETS OF REGULATIONS, AND CHANGES IN ONE S OF REGULATIONS DOESN'T NECESSARILY HAVE IMPLICATIONS FOR THE OTHER. THERE'S NO DOUBT THAT WE HAVE TO HAVE A LARGER CONVERSATION AS A ABOUT THE PLACE AND THE RIGHTS OF TRANSGENDER WOMEN WHO HAVEN'T BEEN GIVE AN FAIRHE ING IN TERMS OF IT BEING A COMPARISH I -- COMPASSIONATE AND INFORMED CONVEATION. BUT I THINK WOMEN WITH HIGH TESTOSTERONE NEED TO BE JUDGED ON THEIR OWN TERMS AND PEOPLE SHOULDN'T BRING FEELINGS ABOUTR TRANSGENMEN INTO THIS CONVERSATION. I THINK WE CAN ALL AGREE WE HAVE MEN'S SPORTS AS OUR TOP PRIORITY, AND WE WANT WHAT'S BEST FOR WOMEN'S SPORTS. MAY DISAGREE ON HOW TO GET THERE, BUT WE ALL WANT WHAT'S BEST FOR WOMEN'S SPORTS. I TAKE MY AD FROM THE WOMEN'S SPORTS FOUNDATION IN THE UNITED STATES AND ADVOCES LIKE BILLY BE JEAN KING WHO HAVE COME T IN SUPPORT OF CASTER SEMENYA AND ENCOURAGING US TO SEE HER CONTRIBUTION TO WOMEN'S SPORT A POSITIVE AND SOMETHING TO CELEBRATE.

>> CHRISTINE, IN ELITE SPORTS ELSIE, I'M THINKING OF LeBRON JAMES, MICHAEL PHELPS, THOSE PEOPLE ARE EXTRAORNARY ATHLETES, BUT THEY ARE ALSO NEARLY PHYSICALLY PERFECT FOR THEIR PARTICULAR SPORT. WE DON'T LOOK INTO THEIR ABILITIES AND THINK OF IT AS A UNFAIR ADVANTAGE, WE THINK OF IT AS PART AND PARS OF THEIR GREATNESS. WHY DO WE THINK OF CASTER'S CASE DIFFERENTLY?

>> WE HAVEN'T MADE A CLASSIFICATION FOR MANY OF THE CATEGORIES YOU JUST DESCRIBED. FOR EXAMPLE, MICHAEL PHELPS FEET, LIKE FLIPPERS, CERTAINLY SSLPED HIM AND HIS TORSO. SO IF WE HAD A CICATION FOR FOOT SIZE, AND I THINK YOU KNOW ME WELL AS A JOURNALIST, IT TAS VERY SERIOUSLY, SO I'M L NOT MAKIHT OF THIS, IF WE DID, THEN MICHAEL PHELPS WOULD BE IN A DIFFERENT CATEGORY THAN SOME OF THE OTHER SWIMMERS. BUT WE DON'T DO THAT. SOCIETY, OUR CULTURE, WILLIAM, HS DECIDED TO MAKE CATEGORIES FOR WOMEN'S AND MEN'S SPORT AND SEPARATE THEM. WE BASICALLY HAVE SEGREGATION.HE BYAY, TRANSGENDER RIGHTS ARE HUGELY IMPORTANT TO ME AND ANYTIME YOU DELVE INTO A COMPLEX CONVERSATION THAT'S BEEN GOING ONOOR A LONG TIME, YOU WANT MAKE IT CRYSTAL CLEAR, I SUPPORT TRANSGENDER RIGHTS, I ABSOLUTELY. DO THE QUESTION IS WHAT ARE WE GOING TO -- WHAT DO WE WANTO SEE OUT OF WOMEN AND GIRLS SPORTS A IS THERE A LIMIT ON TESTOSTERONE INVOLVING AND PARTICIPATING IN WOMEN'S AND GIRLS SPORTS, AND WE HAVE SEEN WITH THE NCAA AND THE INTERNATIONAL OLYMPIC SUBMIT COMMITTEE AND OTHERS, THAT THEY ARE SAYI, AS A TRANSGENDER PERSON -- AND, AGAIN, CASTER SEMENYA IS NOT TRANSGENDER, BUT TO TAKE THE CONVERSATION ENFURTHER, IF YOU ARE TRANR AND YOU ARE A WOMAN, THEN YOU NEED TO TAKE COME HORMONES SO THAT YOUR TESTOSTERONE LEVEL IS LOWER. WE HAVE SEEN LEAGUES SAY THIS. MAYBE THIS WILL GO TO THE SUPREME COURT COURT AT SOME POINT AND AS A JOURNALIST, I AN TO COVER EVERY SOASKED. THIS BUT I WOULD ALSO SAY THIS, IF YOU THINK OF CAITLYN JENNER -- BRUCE JENNER WON THE OLYMPIC GOLD IN 1976 BEFORE I STARTED COVERING THE OLYMPICS IN THE DECATHLON AND WAS ONE OF THE GREATEST WINNERS IN SPORTS. INSTEAD OF HER DECIDING TO TRANSITION, AND HAD DONE THIS IN $76 TO '84 AND CAME BACK TOS GELES AND COMPETED IN AS A WOMAN, AND WOUWO HAVE WON, WE D HAVE HAD A FANTASTIC AND RIVETING CONVERSATIOABOUT THIS THEN. THAT'S WHAT WE ARE TALKING ABOUT AND I AS A JOURNALIST SEE MOVING FORWARD.

>> COMPLICATED WITH NO EASY ANSWERS. CHRISTINE BRENNAN, MA MADELINE PAPE, THANK YOU BOTH FOR BEING HERE.

>> THANK YOU.

>> Woodruff: FROM THE ATTORNEYTE GENERAL'IMONY IN FRONT OF THE SENATE JUDICIARY, HIS NO-SHOW AT THE HOUSE HEARING, AND A GROWING 2020 FIELD,AN IT'S BEEHER BUSY WEEK IN WASHINGTON. HERE TO HELP US BREAK IT ALL DOWN ARE SHIELDS AND BROOK THAT'S SYNDICATED COLUMNIST MARK SHIELDS, AND "NEW YORK TIMES" COLUMNIST DAVID BROOKS, WHO JOINS US FROM SAN FRANCISCO. HELLO TO BOTH OF YOU, DAVID AND MARK. LET'S START BY TALKING ABOUT THE PHONE CALL WE LEARNED ABOUT THIS AFTERNOON, MARK, THE PRESIDENT ON THE PHONE, OVER AN HOUR WITH RUSSIA'S PRESIDENT VLADIMIR PUTIN. ARE TOLD THE PRESIDENTSA HIMSEL THEY TALKED ABOUT RUSSIAN INTERFERENCE OR ALLEGED INTERFERENCE IN THE 20 ELECTION BUT COMPLETELY DISMISSED IT. EP SAID THE TWO OF THEM AGREED THAT THE MUELLERT WAS A WASTE OF TIME, IN SO MANY WORDS, AND THAT THE WHOLE RUS- BELIEF THAT THE RUSSIANS DID YTHING WRONG WAS A HOAX.

>> THE PRESIDENT HAS ENDED THE DISCUSSION. THAT'S IT, JUDY. I MEAN, IT'S OVER. .ANORING THE FINDINGS OF THE C.I.A., OF THE N OF THE INTELLIGENCE AGENTS -- CENTER FOR INTELLIGENCE, DAN COATES, ALL, INCLUDING GENERAL JIM MATT, SECRETARY OF DEFENSE A NOW SECRETARY POMPEO -- MIKE POMO, WHEN HE WAS C.I.A. DIRECTOR ALL CONCLUDED RUSSIA HAD INTERFERED, BUT WHEN ASKED BY CHRISTIAN WELKER TODABADE YOU TALK ABOUT MUNGS MEDDLING, THE PRESIDENT ACCUSED THE NBC CORRESPONDENT OF BEING RUDE BY ASKING SUCH A QUESTION. SO THAT'S WHERE WE ARE.

>> Woodruff: DAVID, DOES IT UNDERMINE WHAT ROBERT MUELLER DID THAT THE PRESIDENT CTINUES TO SAY THIS WHOLE THING WAS A HOAX?

>> WELL, IT CERTAINLY UNDERMINES AMERICAN DEMOCRACY. IT'S LIKE HAVING A CONVERSATION WITH THE JAPANESE EMPEROR IN 1942 AND NOT MENTIONING PEARL HARBOR. IT WAS AN INVASION OF OUR DEMOCRATIC PROCESS AND EVERY AMERICAN IN THE COUNTRY EXCEPT ONE UNDERSTANDS THAT.RS SO TRUMP WONHY PEOPLE EAVESTIGATE THE IDEA OF RUSSIAN COLLUSION AND THE E'S SOMEHOW TIED TO RUSSIA IN SOME NEFARIOUS WAY. ITWELL, THIS IS WHY THEY D BECAUSE, IN PUBLIC AND THE WAY HE CONDUCTS HIMSELF, HE ACTS LIKE SOMEONE WHO N COLLUSI WITH RUSSIA. THERE PROBABLY WITH US NO COLLUSION BUT HE ACTS THAT WAY. YOU WONDER WHEN PUTIN THINKST WHEN HE DOEST CHALLENGED WHEN HE DOES SOMETHING LIKE THIS AND YOU WONDER WHAT EXACTLY IS THE MOTIVATION. DOES TRUMP LIKE PUTIN PERSONALLY? IS IT STRATEGIC? IT'S BAFFLING.

>> Woodruff: DOESN'T APPEAR THE PRESIDENT BROUGHT UP CONCERN ABOUT THE RUSSIANS' INTERFERENCE IN 2020 WHICH OTHER OFFICIALSAI HAVE BUT SOMEBODY BEFORE WONG KONG THIS WEEK BECAUSE OFHE MUELLER REPORT WAS ATTORNEY GENERAL WILLIAM BARR. MARK, HE SPENT HOURS ANSWERING QUESTIONS BEFORE THE SENATE JUDICIARY COMMITTEE.CO IT WAS VERENTION WHEN DEMOCRATS WERE ASKING QUESTIONS BUT HE HELD HIS GROUND. HE SAID HE -- HE DEFENDED TH WAY HE HANDLED ROBERT MUELLER'S REPORT, AND THIS CAME JUST HOURS AFTER WE LEARNED THAT MURAL HAD STEPPED NO TO TELL THE ATTORNEY GENERAL HE DIDT LIKE THE WAY THE REPORT HAD BEEN CHARACTERIZED.

>> JUDY, YOU HAVE TO SAY THAT THE ATTORNEY GENERAL, FINALLY, THE PRESIDENT GOT AN ATTORNEY ENNERAL HE WANTED. THIS IS WHAT HE'S SKING FOR, THAT JEFF SESSIONS FAILED THE TEST, THE LOYAL COUNCILLOR, THE APOLOGIST, THE DEF-- AN ALL-O DEFENDER, HE EVENNA SCRIBED THE PRIDENT MAKING CALLS TO FIRE PEOPLES AN INNOCENT ACT OF FRUSTRATION, NOT NEFARIOUS OR DOUBLE DEALING. SO THAT'S WHAT WE DID. NOW HE'S NOT GOING TO APPEAR BEFORE THE HOUSE. I WOULD Y, AS LONG AS THIS FEUD GOES ON, IF IT'S BILL BARR AGAINST JERRY NADLER CHAIRMAN OF THE HOUSE JUDICIARY COMMITTEE, BE'S EXACTLY WHERE THE WHITE HOUSE WANTS IT T

>> Woodruff: DAVID, WHAT DID YOU MAKE TO HAVE THE ATTORNEY GENERAL THIS WNAK BEFORE THE ?

>> I THOUGHT IT WAS BEST EXPRESS BID A PIECE BY A LEGAL EXPERT IN THE ATLANTIC, HE SAID HE DIDN'T SEE ANY SIGN OF PERJURY, THAT HE DIDN'T LIE AS NANCY PELOSI CLAIMS, BUT HE SPUN. SO EVERYTHING HE SAID WAS SHADED IN THE DIRECTION TO MAKE TRUMP LOOK GOOD. AND IF THERE WAS ONE THING WE NEEDED RIGHT NOW AND ONE THING WE NEED IT'S PEOPLE BEING HONEST, PEOPLE YOU CAN ACTUALLY GEUST WHO ARE NOT JUST SPINNERS. THE JOB OF ATTORNERAL IS NOT LIKE THE OTHER ADMINISTRATION JOBS. IT'S SUPPOSED TO HAVE ITS OWN INDEPENDENT LOYALTY TO THE LAW A AND TO TNCY, AND WHEN YOU BECOME JUST ANOTHER SPINNER FORE THE PRESIDENT,YOU'RE UNDERMINING YOUR RELATIONSHIP TO ENE AMERICAN PEOPLE, YOU'RE UNDERMINING YOUR D OF THE AGENCY AND YOU'RE SUDDENLY UNDERMINING LAW. O I WOULD HAVE LOVED TO G THERE AND SAY HERE'S THE FACTS, YOU CAN TRT ME, I'M TELLING YOU STRAIGHT. HE DIDN'T TELL IT STRAIGHT. HE WITHHELD WHEN HE WANTED TO, HE SORT OF SIDE STEPPED THINGS. HE WAS JOTHER PRESS SPOKESMAN.

>> Woodruff: AND THIS ALL SEEMED TO PLAY IN, MK, TO WHAT APPEARS TO BE A SERIOUSLY DETERIORATING RELATIONSHIP BEEEN DEMOCRATS AND THE CONGRESS AND THE ADMINISTRATION, AS THE DEMOCRATS SEEK MORE FORMATION THEY WANT TO INVESTIGATE, WHAT COMES OUT TO HAVE THE MUELLER REPORT, THE ADMINISTRATION, THE TRUMP WHITEN HOUSE IS SAYIN WE'RE NOT TURNING OVER DOCUMENTS, WE'RE NOT GOING TO LET YOU INTERVIEW PEOPLE. WHAT ARE WE HEADING FOR, AS DAVID MENTIONED, SPEAKERRER OF THE HOUSE NANCY PELOSI WAS COMPARING WHAT THE PSIDENT IS DOING TO RICHARD NIXON.

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

>> Woodruff: DAVID, ARE THE DEMOCRATS MAKING A MISTAKE? ARE THEY GOING OVERBOARD BY THE DEMANDS THAT THEY'RE MAKING?

>> I THINK IN SO WAYS THE FOCUS SEEMS JUST AS PARTISAN AS ANYTHING COMREG FROM THE BLICAN SIDE. I THINK THERE'S ONE MORE STEP HERE, THAT'S THE MUELLER TESTIMONY. BUT IT'S HARD TO SEE TOO MANY OTHER STEPS AFTER THAT. IF I WERE A REPUBLICAN, I WOULD THINK, YOU KNOW, IF THEY WANT TO TALK ABOUT THE M MINUTIA OF THE MURAL REPORT AND GROWTH AND WAGES FOR POOR WORKERS, THAT'S A NVERSATION I WOULD LIKE HAVE. THE DEMOCRATS WOULD BE WISE TO LET THE VOTERS DECIDE.uf

>> Woo MARK, ARE YOU SAYING DEMOCRATS SHOULD JUST DROP THIS?

>> NO, I THINK QUITE BLUNTLY, JUDY, CHAIRMAN NADLER HAS COME ACROSS AS ALMOST ON A PERSONAL VENDETTA AGAINST DONALD TRUMP. I THINK THERE ARE HEARINGS TO BE HELD, I THINK THE BOB MUELLER HEARINGS. I DON'T KNOW WHY, FOR EXAMPLE,N' THEY DJUST HAVE ATTORNEY GENERAL BARR IN AND, THEN, IF THEY WTED TO TURN IT OVER THE A STAFF ATTORNEY TO ASK QUESTIONS AT SOME POINT, LET THE ATTORNEY GENERAL GET UP AND BARGE OUT. WHY GET INTO THIS BACK A FORTH IF YOU REALLY WANT TO HEAR WHAT HE HAS TO SAY? AND THAT'S WHAT IT'S BECOME. YES, NO WITNESS SHOULD BE ABLE TO DETERMINE EXACTLYTHE CONDITIONS ARE UNDER WHICH THAT WITNESS WILL APPEAR, BUT, LISTEN, I THINK OF BILL BARR, JERRY NADLER, WITH THE BEST UNEMPLOYMENT RECD IN 50 YEARS IS A PLUS FOR THE WHITE HOUSE AND THAT'S NOT EXACTLY WHERE YOU WANT THE DEMOCRATS TO BE RIGHT NOW.

>> Woodruff:

>> Woodruff: ANY MIDDLE GROUND HERE?

>> HAVEN'T SEEN MUCH MIDDLEGR ND IN WASHINGTON FOR YEARS, SO I DON'T THINK SO.

>> Woodruff: TRUE. WE, LET'S MOVE ON JUST QUICKLY, BOTH OF YOU, TO 2020. JOE BIDEN JUMPED IN THE RACE OVER A WEEK AGO, BUT HE MADE HIS FIRST BIG CAMPAIGN APPEARANCE, DAVID, THIS WEEK IN PITTSBURGH.E MAKING A CLEAR PITCH REACH TO VOTERS WHO ARE WORKING CLASS, WHO ARE MEMBS OF LABOR UNIONS AND OTHERS. IS THAT A SMART APPROACH FOR HIM? AND, BY THE WAY, WE'TO NOW GOT CLOS3 DEMOCRATS TALKING ABOUT RUNNING FOR PRESIDENT.

>> YEAH, FIRST I THIEN IS TAKING THE SMART APPROACH, AND IT'S PAYING OFF FOR HIM. NNTHINK A LOT OF US WERE S BY HOWELL HE'S DONE IN THE POLLS WHEN HE ANNOUNCED HE'S VERY STRONGLY AHEAD. HE'S TIED WITH BERNIE SANDERS AMONG DEMOCRATS WHO CALL THEMSELVES LONERAL. HE'S SIN THE CENTER, TO THE RIGHT TO HAVE THE PARTY. HE'S STRONG ACROSS THE BOARD. HE'S ESPECIALLY STROH 50% OF MINORITIES, AFRICAN-AMERICAN VOTERS SUPPORT HIM. 'S OPENED UP -- IT'S VERY EARLY. HE'S OPENED UP A VERY COMPELLING LEAD SO HIS STRATEGY IS CLEARLY WORKING. AS FOR THE NUMBER OF CANDIDATES, I'M BEGINNINTO THINK IT'S A ROBLEM. YOU KNOW, YOU HAVE A DINNER PARTY AND THINK HOW MANY PEOPLE CAN YOU HAVE A GOOD CONVERSATION WITH, 22 IS NOT THE RIGHT MBER. I THINK IF WE HAVE THAT MANY CANDIDATES, FIRST, THEY'RE GOING TO HAVE TO DO DESPERATE THINGS TO WIN ATTENTION AND, SECOND, WE IN THE MEDIA WILL ACT AS GATEKEEPERS. WE'LL ONLY PAY ATTENTION TO A FEW, AND WE'LL BE THE GATEKEEPERS AND NOT THE VOTERS. SO I'M WORRIED ABOUT WHAT'S ABOUT TO HAPPEN.

>> Woodruff: I WANT TO ASK ABOUT BIDEN BUT ALSO ABOUT THIS NOTION THAT THERE ARANY CANDIDATES MAKING A SERIOUS RUN.

>> JUDY, THERE ARE SO MANY CANDIDATES FOR A VERY SIMPLE REASON -- IN THE LAST GAP LOP POLL BEFORE THE ELECTION OF 2016, FIRST TIME IN AMERICAN REHISTORY BOTH CANDIDATES RATED PERSONALLY UNFAVORABLE BY THE VOTERS.AS DONALD TRUMP6 FAVORABLE, 61% UNFAVORABLE. HE HAD NEVER SERVED A DAY IN PUBLIC OFFICE CIVILIAN OR MILITARY LIFE. WO HAD NO EXPERIENCE AND H AN UNPOPULAR MAN. I'M A CONGRESSMAN THREE TERMOM I'M A COUNTYSSIONER, WHY SHOULDN'T I RUN? IF I CAN BE ONE OF TWO PEOPLE ON THE FIELD AGAINST HIM IN NOVEMBER, I CAN BEAT HIM. THAT ENCOURAGES ALL KINDS OF PEOPLE WHO NEVER THOUGHT OF RUNNING THE PAST TO RUN. KEVID IS RIGHT, THE IDEA OF THE PRESS BEING THE GAERS IS A RATHER SOBERING AND UNREASSURING PROSPECT BASED UPON THE GREAT JOB WE DID IN 2016 WITH DONALD TRUMP, IN PARTICULAR. SO I THINK THAT'S A PROBLEM. THE OTHER OBLEM IS THAT SOMEBODY COULD WIN IN THAT BIG A FIELD WITH 33%, 35%, AND NEVER HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT GETTING --

>> Woodruff: A LOT LESS THAN 50.

>> A ROT LESS THAN 50. IF YOU HAVE A SOLID 30, THAT'S PROBABLY BUSH YOU KNOW, IT WILL WIN OUT IN A HURRY. WE WON'T GET 23 IN IOWA, AND WE SURE AS HELL WON'T HAVE RE THAN 4 OR 5 -- MAX 4 AFTER IOWA. SO I'M CONFIDENT IN THAT RESPECT.

>> Woodruff: ALL RIGHT, 30 SECONDS, DAVID. TDO YOU THINK WE'LL BE DO FOUR OR FIVE BY IOWA?

>> NO, I DON'T. I LET'S JUST RESPECT THE OFFICE OF THE PRESIDENCY. IT'S AN IMPOSSIBLE JOB.U OULD HAVE THE PREPARATION D OF A BE OR JOHN MCCAIN OR SOMEBODY WHO'S BEEN AROUND, JOH KENNEDY, BEFU STEP IN THAT JOB. THERE SHOULD BE A LADDER LEADING RS THAT JOB. IT'S NOT A NOVICE JOB FOR ANYBODY.

>> Woodruff: THAT RULES OUT SEVERAL OF THE FOLKS WHO ARE RUNNING. REWON'T NAME ANY NAMES BUT IT RULES OUT A FEW.

>> AND IT RULES SEVERAL IN.

>> Woodruff: IT DOES RULE SEVERAL IN. DAVID BROOKS, MARK SHIELDS, THANK YOU.

>> Woodruff: LATER THIS EVENING ON PBS, A SPECIAL HONORING GLORIA AND EMILIO ESTEFAN, WINNING THE LIBRARY OF CONGRESS' GERSHWING PRIZFOR SONGWRITING. AMNA NAWAZS BACK, WITH A CONVERSATION WITH THE TALENTED COUPLE. ♪ ♪

>> Nawaz: THAT BEAT. IT IS INSTANTLY RECOGNIZABLE. ♪ ♪ (♪ "RHYTHM IS GONNA GET YOU" ♪)

>> Nawaz: SOUNDS FROM THE 1980s THAT DOMINATED RADIO AND MTV... ...MAKING GLORIA ESTEFAN AND HER BAND, THE MIAMI SOUND MACHINE, INCLUDING HER HUSBAND, EMILIO ESTEFAN, ONE OF THE MOST POPULAR MUSICAL ACTS OF THE TIME. (♪ "RHYTHM IS GONNA GET YOU" ♪)N awaz: BREAKING THROUGH FROM THE SPANISH-LANGUAMB GENRE TO NU-ONE HITS ON THE BILLBOARD POP CHARTS. LAST MONTH, THE LIBRARY OF CONGRESS HONORED THE COUPLE WITH THE GERSHWIN PRIZE FOR POPULAR SONG. THE NEXT DAY, WE SAT DOWN WITH THE ESTEFANS TO LEARN MORE ABOUT THEIR MUSIC, THEIR JOURNEY AND EIR RELATIONSHIP. HOW DOES THIS WORK?

>> I THINK IT'S LOVE. I RESPECT A LOT OF US. BUT LOVE IS ABSOLUTELY THE MAIN THING. RESPECT AND COMMUNICATION.

>> THAT AND HE MAKES ME LAUGH EVERY NGLE DAY IN MY LIFE,

>> Nawaz: EVERY SINGLE DAY?

>> EVERY SINGLE DAY.

>> YES, IN HER.

>> Nawaz: WHERE DID THAT COME FROM?

>> WELL, WE LEFT CUBA, MY MOM AND I. MY DAD TOOK US OUT OF CUBA p

>> Nawaz:DOES THAT MEAN? ANTER. E IN HOTEL ROOMS.PPERS THA ♪"RHYTHM IS GONNA GET YOU"I)ND

>> Woodruff: WHAT A GREAT INTERVIEW. YOU CAN SEE TRIBUTES TO THE COUPLE, TONIGHT, RIGHT HE ON PBS. AND BEFORE THE ESTEFANS, DON'T FORGET "WASHINGTON WEEK." ROBERT COSTA REPORTS ON THE BITTER LEGAL FIGHT ON CAPITOL HILL, COMPLETE WITH THREATS OF CONTEMPT AND IMPEACHMENT. THAT'S COMING UP ON "WASHINGTON WEEK." AND THAT IS THE NEWSHOUR FOR TONIGHT. I'M JUDY WOODRUFF. HAVE A GREAT WEEKEND. THANK YOU, AND GOOD NIGHT.

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>> TONIGHT ON KQED NEWSROOM, CONGRESSION DEMOCRATS ARE DEMANLDING MANDING RESIGNATION AND EVEN IMPEACHMENT FOR WILLIAM BAR ARE. ALSO THE U.S. IS DEALING THE WORST OUTBREAK OF MEASLES IN DECADES. ES FOR EEL ARE HEY FROM A STATE LAW MAKE PUSHING FOR A CRACKDOWN ON EXEMPTIONS FR VACCINATIONS.

>> TAKEON OVER RETURN THE ISSUES THAT MATTER MOST TO HIGH SCHOOL STUDENTS. WE BEGIN WITH GROWING TENSIONS BETWEEN HOUSE DEMOCRATND