Voter's Pipeline; Faces and Issues: Senior Citizens & Transportation

Channel 15 now presenting voters pipeline a program designed to keep voters in touch with the people they elect to office. The program alternates each week in dialogues with Orange County elected officials in Washington Sacramento county government and with personalities in Orange County discussing local issues. Today's program is entitled faces and issues and focuses on senior citizens and transportation. Now here's your host Jim Cooper. There are over two hundred fifty thousand senior citizens in Orange County. If you define that as people who are over 60 years of age these senior citizens have many problems including health housing and limited income. There are many programs available to help senior citizens but many seniors have trouble getting to these facilities because of transportation problems. We're going to examine that problem today. Activities occur daily at the Senior Citizen Center in Orange the center is open throughout

the week as are the other 23 senior centers in Orange County. All of the centers have active participation by their members. Some seniors serve on the Planning Council while others volunteer their help in various ways such as serving at the reception desk. Interested seniors may register for activities at each center. They are then eligible to participate in such programs as group discussions Bible study sewing quilting painting arts and crafts chess bingo cards choir practice and a variety of other recreational and educational activities. Needless to say many of the activities of these centers provide much happiness and companionship for local senior citizens. But thousands of seniors can't enjoy them because they don't have transportation available to them.

It looks like they're having a good time. Well as you can see many senior citizens could lead more fulfilling lives because of the services available to them in the county. However transportation to these services is a major problem faced by many senior citizens. Today's guest will provide some insight into this area. And now let's meet them. Ralph Clark is Orange County supervisor of the Fourth District. He's chairman of the Orange County Transit District in a member of the Orange County

Transportation Commission. He was elected in June 1078 to his third term as Orange County supervisor. Her big it is immediate past chairman of the Orange County Senior Citizens Council and is presently chairman of the Transportation Committee of the Senior Citizens Council. He's past president of the Anaheim chapter of the American Association of Retired Persons and national Retired Teachers Association. Greg Bishop is chairman of the Gray Panthers in Orange County. Mr. Bishop and his wife founded the Gray Panthers in Orange County in Orange California in 1976. He's currently executive director of the orange senior citizen center and a member of the Orange County Council on Aging. Well gentlemen as we saw there that it looked like a lot of fun can happen along with counseling and other things. And we know that seniors have many problems problems dealing with housing problems dealing with nutrition problems dealing with inflation but today I'd like to zero in on transportation because we've been told that that is a problem of concern to a lot of them so. Who would like to give a little overview on that to start out with.

Mark I certainly can begin by talking about the Orange County Transit District who's doing its best to address these problems maybe the other gentlemen would like to lead off with the problem was they want it when we hear from Mr. Ray get down on us and then I'll be glad to get on the right. OK what about this problem of welfare for anywheres from the over the big picture. For years I've been chairman of the Transportation Committee. Of the Orange County Senior Citizens Council and we hold monthly meetings at which time representatives from the various cities and the agencies and the public are invited. We welcome them because this is where we get our information and what are people saying about transportation. We feel that we have come a long way in the last four five years. We have many. Different organizations as well as the transit district that uses

vehicles they have various grants title funds or what have you to operate these vehicles. One of the biggest programs of course is a nutrition TLC program but they do. In this particular instance furnished the transportation to the sites so they can not only have a meal but they are also able to enjoy the various programs but not all people can get all the satyrs and so we want to talk about that probably true now on the dial a ride which unfortunately is still not countywide. This is a tremendous help. The Community Development Council to some degree helps with their 10 vehicles in various cities throughout the county. Those rights for you and the community most of them are free the dial a ride no I think 35 cents is now the Diallo left. Also is a county wide program. And we feel very strongly that they're doing a fine job. There is always room for improvement

and we are improving constantly. But one of the saddest thing is going to be when you hear from senior citizens to say I can't get to the center I can't get to the activity I can't get the nutrition because there's no transportation. I would like to say Jim that there is not many. There are so many ways of people getting. To a cop or a chapter or a nutrition site. We're talking now about public transportation but there are other organizations there are volunteers that will follow We're going to get to the public transportation but I'd like to hear some of the you know some of these stories that need action and maybe talk a little bit as well as the positive side of this so that they don't if you don't recognize their problems and you are on your way to what you're saying it's a very gray area from time to time we will be criticized for not taking care of a senior here. But again if the senior will to some degree cooperate so that we know they have a problem then we don't know that they have a

problem so it's a matter of give and take we must know that they have a problem. We must know that they need a ride we don't want to hear that Mrs. Smith is not going to ride yesterday because nobody wanted to get out we want to know that if you want to know what the right is Mars they can get somebody out. Think what you said a gray area let's go let's go to the Gray Panthers. OK. The problem what is the sad part of the story so we can discuss on that. I think you know as a basis in Orange where our center is located we're very fortunate and we have dollar right in orange and we have a CDC van in Orange where our centers Rokita right on a bus line to. But however that doesn't cover the need. There are still some very basic problems with transportation for seniors to the extent that our city which is impressed with the activities at our center to the degree that they are talking about building something new. But instead of adding on to our current location we tell them a would be a mistake what we should do is go to another section of the city because we feel we can only serve those people that live in the immediate area and we

can transport other people through the means don't live within five or 10 blocks. But you know it's still a situation where transportation is a major impediment to them using these kinds of services. If you look at the dot dot dot right system and it's a very good system. And as I said we are fortunate however it cuts off at 7 o'clock at night. Now for people that don't drive in most seniors do not have cars that you know they do not are certainly not able to drive at night because of problems with eyes and this sort of thing. You know it pretty much cuts out a night life for them. We have many problems for example where we have a travel program. We might go up to him solving. When they come back if it's after seven o'clock you know how do they get home. And we're working very hard on these problems we feel it's our responsibility to come up with some kind of supplemental system but the insurance questions that are raised these days the volunteers who are very concerned that they don't want you know to give somebody right and final later on that they're going to sue them. They complement complicate these factors. Very much and make it almost impossible. You know same thing goes for weekends specially

Sundays because dollar ride doesn't mean a traveler doesn't move on Saturdays and does use an area as well you know we're just not used. It does work on Saturday on Saturday or but not Sunday. No. People you know have to go to church and this sort of thing. A major Another major problem is emergency transportation where somebody needs to go to the doctor or they just need to go to the doctor for example from Ornish to Santa Ana. What happened in that one dollar I did not go across you know city boundaries and so what we have to do is as they contact us and we arrange for a ride in some way. We're able to take care of the bulk of the people that contact us for this reason. Of course many people don't contact us yet we've only been there a year so far. Beginning of the complications of insurance we can find a volunteer that can do it but you know eventually there you know there are concerns about insurance are raised. You know everybody's filing lawsuits these days and this is one of the factors we have to deal with. Insurance again is a major problem with CDC we have one of their vans that we were told today that we have to give me assurance you don't mean for the public transportation insurance if they want to drive as you want to drive his own

car. Well that's true that's right but I have a transportation end for example for the CDC vans and insurance costs are a major problem there. We were told today that we have to raise $2700 way for you know to be able to keep that dollar honor that CDC ban next year. But we did make clear that CDC van is not the county public grant that right this is a device to let other another avenue go to taste right. Have you approached insurance companies I mean this is a statewide issue in fact it's probably a nationwide issue turned up in many renowned many questions many conferences in many different areas but it's just one of those things it's going to take a while to get resolved but you're meeting with private insurance corporation to make them aware of this transportation oh yes oh yes because out into that very deeply in fact that we have the state interested hold fully but have a blanket coverage for all exempt vehicles right. I did mean that if the basic problem though is Orange County is I see it Orange County has not had a public transportation system for very long. Yes we're trying to develop one right

now and one transit district has done a very good job at that. They get they receive many complaints of you know empty buses running around but they are a very young organization where that appears little over six years old 1972 and that is exactly right. You know most of us drive our automobiles we depend on you always have to have one here in Orange County. But the fact is that older people in many cannot afford an automobile. Many cannot drive you know past a certain you know period their you know their skills and motor skills are reduced and such and they have to depend on other means for example annoyance we have you know the highest percentage of low income seniors of any community around so many many of our people can't afford the insurance costs alone. But to make it make it clear I understand it now if a senior citizen an orange gets on a dial a ride to his doctors in Santa Ana he can't take that. That's right. Or if he is it gets I want to know in his you know his nutrition center isn't touched in or something where we have to go to him is not that rigid. They can go over their boundaries I think it's up to one mile in that correct.

We're going to ask about the body. But then I think it's fair to say that you can't go from It isn't interested in at this. Right now there is some flexibility and I'm not saying that it's a it's a bad system because it doesn't do that there's But I would just if it could do that right and I think it's our responsibility to let our senior citizen center to make sure those people get there. But it just points out some of the problems are still dealing with. But what you're saying too that even if you have a private group whatever the private group is it could be the Lion's Club or Rotary Club that's willing to help out. They would face this same terrible insurance problem that didn't say that which is another part of the solution to this whole problems right. I'd like to ask you a supervisor Clark I know you've been around probably more than any other man in the birth of this public transportation. If it's true that we have this dial right now we're not talking about dial it I'd like to talk about that a little bit later but dial a ride only operates in and I am Bria FULLERTON LA Orange and Villa Park and the Saddleback Valley. Now there's only about six communities out of a county that has 26 cities and 250000 senior citizens.

So can you address that problem. Why is it only in those few cities and why is it only in the city in which it operates and it can't cross into another city. Well it's very simple. In 1970 the voters decided to create a transit district so we wouldn't be dependent upon Southern California rapid transit to provide minimal services in Orange County we've grown areas where we needed our own service and it wasn't until 1972 that the first five buses went on a road. Today our total fleet is three hundred seventy seven buses serving 26 cities and doing it on basically a 30 minute to a 40 minute headways throughout the county This is tremendous headway you mean. I mean in other words he waits for the young to go to a bus stop and some routes maybe there's an hour on a name frequently used throughout. But basically on the main used areas it's 30 minutes maximum wait but the

point that I'm trying to make is that we've come a long way since 1972 and I think that we could possibly serve all of the needs of everybody in Orange County in that short time. Just absolutely ludicrous. There is no way that we can possibly do it. However we've done exhaustive studies to see that we'd be spending our dollars in the best areas so that it wouldn't. The most I've priorities where the need is the worse that we would address these needs is we will go on with our systems and spending our dollars Rice Li-Young we update these studies from time to time so that we could make it. Now to get back to your question on the dial right. Yes the dial a ride began in one city in La Habra as a trial run as a matter of fact it was a grant a special grant that we got from the federal government. The urban mass transit authority to put this into effect. And I see you did run within the city limits of LA hombre. Then we extended this to another city and then to another city. According to the

needs studies as they need for dial a ride was more pronounced in this particular area over the next area. And these were professional studies that we subscribe to and we put them in as we could do it and it's a very expensive system dialer ideas which you tell at the senior center and get the right for 35 cents yes. If you're not a senior citizen then you want to dial a ride it's what you pay a dollar on some of the areas. OK but the point there. We're trying to make is the fact that these dial right systems are confined to the geographical area under which their contract to do run in other words a trance like say Anaheim is one of its days in Anaheim in Anaheim right or a very small breach 30 winds or you did. It makes no problem there they will cross and go over. But generally speaking they stay in the area in which they operate like the brain of one would operate in Bria. Yes for the heart area and the long hard road I agree and for now why is it that they cannot cross to other areas

as a matter of cost study. Well it's a it's a fact that in order to get the contract out the transit district does not operate these things we put them out to private enterprise to run it and they bid on certain costs for operating and therefore they have a territory or lines that they have to bid on and consequently they're held in to this particular area. So this is a predominant reason but as I say if it's a small infringement across the line then there's no problem with this at all the way they do take care of theirs. But. Problem with supplying dial right is that it's a very expensive system where Bryden it gradually and with limitations is put on the income. We do have to subsidize these programs. We very well might be overhauling the entire dial right program and maybe make it as complete 26 city service for just senior citizens for example. None of this is one of the things that we're examining now.

I'm just thinking about the senior citizens who will live without these five areas. They can say that they've been kind of left out on the process. Well again I want to survive gripes actually. Again you've got to understand one thing we're talking about dial right. Don't forget that we have this community figure out system where seniors ride free. Yeah we're the only transit district in the United States it provides free transportation for our senior citizens. They just get on the bus so they've got their problems for some of them I suppose where they can get to the main line and if they can't they have to have it in a parking lot. Give them a ride to the mainline or some other way to you know they could have this dial a ride which they like and have their city taken down there and they can transfer into that system. Yeah if they're in one of the said there's no problems with that. Actually the Orange County trains streak is one of the senior citizens best friends. Yes and it is worked very hard with them. Herb knows that every bit of our advisory committee actions and so forth has been dependent upon a lot of senior citizen input and you

count on it very much. I'd like to emphasize that point you know I want to make sure that we don't you know I don't come across as really criticizing the system it's a young system and we've made tremendous progress when I talk about. You're right it had me love and it will be I think well away everywheres like you just mentioned the idea maybe of having a 26 cities wide but then restricted only to seniors debt and that if I start it with ways that we could talk about that would make it better for this right. This a quarter of a million people in Orange County or senior citizen and we all look forward to that day when we have a county wide system that is realistic is that we left a plea in the bar and said What would you say is strictly an alternative to re-evaluated in budget time all about hard facts and figures come in. For example we completed some 20 and a half. Million passengers during the year that we carried on our buses and have them about almost three million were seniors out of I mean when you get to you know use and I don't need 21 million over that which three million

three million well maybe other senior citizens that actually are using our system now that's a good percentage. So they enjoy our service. One thing I'm curious about is when a person gets on a bus and he says I'm a senior How does the driver determine that what is the magic way that he proves to him as a driver that he's a senior citizen. We're not going to put people to the test to make them prove these things I just am saying that there is SR and they certainly are not going to say this. Yeah sure. I was 16 years of age just far less they're going to get it going right. Yeah. I'd like to talk about another area now and we should make clear to our viewers that we're not talking now about dial a ride I'd like to talk to about another area of Diala lift and this get the handicap is relevant to this discussion because many many seniors are also handicapped. So let's talk a little bit about the business of dialups and we're going to take a look at one of these dial lift buses and see how it actually operates because many people have not seen them. Where where there's a

bus that actually has a lift on it and brings up the person that he can see here in this picture. This lady is now been on the DI list bus and she is now coming down and I understand that the dial if bus is different than dial right in that you have a handicapped or senior handicap take that bus. This will take them anywhere in the county outside just what we were talking about and there's the number 5 4 0 0 4 1 2. Now this is one of the dial a ride not to be confused with a dial listen to dial a taxi. Well it's a dial a ride that you have sedans as well as a bus as it was you know we could make a clear distinction between the two. Now that the dial a lift that we just saw a moment ago there's also 35 cents for seniors. But it's different in that it takes this person anywhere now you want to direct yourself to the dial a lift thing you want the thought that I think I'd like to comment on that. I think we've received some news lately that that system may not be in operation for you know in the future you know where it was it was subject to a lawsuit charging discrimination and we're going to

ask supervisor Clark to comment on that. Yeah that's one of the local questions but you know county or state and federal laws are also approaching this. You know same conclusion not the diet there is that there are discrimination by having to dial if one or not not the dial up as a bad system is a very good concept and I think think of the problems with Dialis relate to mechanical breakdowns of the bus as just you know the general reliability questions of the you know what the the major question here is is whether we're going to have a separate system for handicapped people or one fully integrated system and if you really have to look at the problems of handicapped people to get a good understanding of this question it relates back to for example the questions of a handicapped people going to private schools just for handicapped people or should they be have special programs integrated into a larger school system for them. Should they be kind be kept separate from the mainstream of life or should they be fully integrated and I think this is the basis for the argument of handicapped people for a little you have there's been a stand either way on it. Yes the great point there's a Van Wert

a fully integrated system. We are not against a dialect system we think it's a very good you know concept and we'd like to see it work a lot better in the future. Unfortunately the argument has been you know put as one against the other whether we're going to have a fully integrated system or we're you know we're going to get rid of the dialect or you know have both. I think the real solution to this this problem is in the long run as well. And what in the long run and that is having buses that are designed to put you know to carry people with handicaps we're not talking about just people will share as many older people with all of us as the 300 that are right minibuses or whatever that we have many many older people cannot climb up those very steep steps at the federal level they have designs for buses they're called trains buses I believe they're much lower to the ground and you know a lot of them have lifts on them to know that they have they have radios there come out. But you know so a ramp would come out of a bus or wheelchair person could get out of that. That's right. Let me read this to you this is about a meeting and I'm going to ask you to come in a supervisor Clark directors of the Orange County Transit District have admitted that state and federal laws may force the

eventual terminations of the dial of service of the handicapped. Would you comment on that. Sure would or do we stand with that. Well we are subject to federal and state regulations on every time that we buy equipment for our. History and we have 65 buses now which have been held up by an injunction because of the fact that these I think with lifts nowadays so consequently we have had a temporary stay of that and we are now have delivery forthcoming awnings Harbor we have 75 more buses in our next order that we have ordered and on these buses we have to commit that they will be retrofitted for these hoists and so lift wheelchairs which absolutely is totally unacceptable to that transit district why and the fact that we're mixing up our dialer lift system in with our community base which is carrying these 3 million

passengers during the year and which is going to affect our entire system. Now where the only transit district in the state of California which is providing a dial a lift service the others that have their regular systems very well might be subject to this because of the fact that they make no provision for the handicapped at all in our system from their point of view from the economy. You would prefer to continue with a dial a lift. For the handicapped and keep the other separate is a right in the majority of the handicaps feelings they feel it's much more appropriate and serves their needs much better to have those personalized door to door service of Diala which picks them up and takes them to their destination throughout the county rather than have to walk down to the corner get wheeled down to the corner or whatever it is to get on a bus that has these facilities for them and that's where we go with that. What is the upshot right there right now in the area of litigation which we hope will come to a successful conclusion for does your group have any thoughts either way on this.

I sat in the WAIT WAIT feel whatever your point of view wrongly about this. What is your attitude. I have stated publicly. He even wrote a letter to The Times regarding the actions taken by this this these particular people supposedly representing the handicapped of Orange County and what is the upshot of the or what they are only about is that as far as we're concerned I recommend Daish and then all our actions of approval are to continue what we have. We have made tremendous strides. It's ridiculous to even say or do anything that would discourage or disrupt what we're doing. Diana Ryan and I left are two completely separate systems. And to force the left on the buses again is costly and time consuming and most important they will not be used like a tragedy. I like to give a number for senior citizen information. This number is 8 3 4 5 8 5 6 this number again. It's 8 3

4 5 8 5 6 the senior citizens number if anyone has any questions about this obviously we're not going to solve it all today but. The idea of this the state was I mean the countywide dialect is definitely not a consideration. It's fair to say that that's definitely being talked about. Yes yes. Didn't you just pick up after about a half million dollars in a guard all this time is about dried up now so we'll talk about this again. OK. Further down the line. This is very important Jim computerization. Thank you very much for a discussion on the problem of senior citizens are not all solved but headway being made and more to come one of them will look at this problem later on. Next week we'll be in Washington D.C. for a talk with all four of Orange County's congressmen in Washington D.C. about a problem back there they relate orange type people. If you have any question you like that after the people you've elected to office simply write pipeline cable see TV channel 50 Huntington Beach California zip code nine to six or seven We'll ask the questions for you. I'm Jim Cooper. Thanks for being with us.