1973 Watergate Hearings; 1973-06-07; Part 3 of 4

the pay a few of these stories have been very accurate the record show that i make no comments many reporters were newsman over the past several months this may or may not have been wise on my part but i was kind of lesson in how to protect my wife and my three children from the consequences of any excess of publicity i cooperated fully with the federal prosecutors and members of the investigating is that this committee and i have made full disclosure i also think that in cooperating with the federal prosecutors and this committee and in the case of the federal prosecutors at no time did i receive immunity from

norton outright my lawyer so i have made no deals i have agreed only to tell the truth i will answer all questions with me but yesterday regarding testimony or given by it at no time did i ever had any intention of covering up a criminal act that no timeline knowingly engaged in any cover up of the watergate i had no prior knowledge of the watergate burglary and at this very moment i have no knowledge of the involvement of others i have been guilty of a sense of loyalty to the president of the united states affect speak for themselves i may i say that this whole affair is having devastating effects because of the unfavorable publicity i've been terminated from a lucrative position in private industry a fact which in turn has caused the forefront at substantial losses purchase of a new home in

california this is my situation is determined to answer any and all support your opening statement you refer to this sort of candidate program could you please explain to the program and tell us are very periphery of this sort of program was a program that involve me the efforts of about thirty five congressmen senators governors cabinet officials there who would appear on behalf of the president during the campaign the purpose of the program was to look at that group as a resource center maximizing through scheduling and certain campaign appearances on to happen you know he sort of living and in

connection with your duty you ever asked to give cash to literally fight your source that lasted into this one was the first time we saw last year in the summer of nineteen seventy one and what he would murder mystery to tell you mr ritter told me that mr libby was going to be taking on dirty tricks and other special projects and that mr libby would be coming to me from time to time the requested funds and that i was to in turn asked lester sloan for the funds and turn them over mr libby in fact come to you four months he did on how many patients i would say probably seven or eight patients and will the approximate amount to furnish with the lady on each of those occasions the amounts of abortion probably anywhere from five hundred dollars all into one time i think

six thousand dollars he requested it was usually in the two to three thousand dollars april seven nineteen seventy two that's nearly thirty to thirty five thousand dollars probably closer to the thirty thousand dollars figure thirty thirty one now in march and it sent me to mr libby changed positions the correct answer and what was the change it let his duties as general counsel of the committee for the reelection of the president and became general counsel of the finance committee to riverfront how many of you came as you describe her after he went to the finance committee i misunderstood your first question when i answered the thirty to thirty five thousand dollars a figure that was up to april seventh there was an additional payment after april seventh that occurred in the

early part of may nineteen seventy two thirty three hundred dollars which would should be added to the other figure and when you say that i did mr liddy fifty three hundred dollars and he returned two thousand dollars of that fifty three and the next day this delivery ever get you seats for the money you gave him ideas or even mr liddy ever give you anything else i guess are hidden what was that i would say on three or four occasions usually handed me mr silva with his initials with israel he instructed me that if anything should never happen to you that i want to take those directly to the attorney general who was the attorney general mr mitchell

if there ever come a time when it's already the sultan was the middle of what happened there what's the envelopes and i told you this before i cannot remember whether it was at the end of march or after the watergate break in and i have a feeling it was at the end of march but i can't be certain it was one of the times that i went through an audit my my name mr liddy came by and he said you know those envelopes i gave you or that you're building for me and said yes he said one of things that going for them i did that and in doing so i they were stuffed full of paper some kind of would not go through a shredder without looking inside and while bernanke yes sir and you see what was inside of a lot better and it generally and what you say it very quickly that they were very similar to a salesman's receives

they had an airline ticket or a parking ticket a restaurant a style that kind of thing and so i didn't i didn't bother to see look and inspecting one night there were no mammals in them i remember thinking in washington did you ever discuss the contents of the almost with mr liddy you ever discussed the contents of the almost witnessed a vigil the supportive parts of april seventh nineteen seventy two volatility review received from hugh sloan possibly fifty two thousand dollars to disburse approximately forty nine thousand five hundred dollars after april seventh nineteen seventy two how much money did you receive approximately seventeen thousand dollars

and how much first of all how did you you know you've just given us an opportunity to go back recall the question of how to ensure that each of the transactions in which i went and got money from mr solomon and gave it to others and those figures and is it your best recollection knowledge that you receive a busload of total of approximately sixty nine thousand dollars answers a supporter of when did you first become aware of the watergate saturday

we were a lot of celebrities and it was saturday morning here in this relationship following the break in at the watergate and they do have a conversation with us to jeb magruder concerning any statements you might make to the federal bureau of investigation we're waiting this conversation ten

days nor is he that he had just come from a meeting with mr mitchell was killebrew and so an anagram my name is for dropping support your knowledge what was the recruiter told he was i just recently he said that the times really had been fire he said it was a word

that was really on their own illegally participated in the break in the winery and there's a reader sort of maine mr levy i'm sorry and something that they're going to do and it is b there is money good morning

nothing illegal things in the united states now your name was brought up as someone who we can count on to help in this situation and i asked what is the us going to do and he said would you corroborate a story that the money was authorized for something a little bit more legitimate sounding then he checks even though the checks were legal it still will be very messy and it's a year where the democrats have filed a civil suit against this committee and he's sitting on a new discovery is set up they may get in the discovery which

means that they can come in any minute and school while sipping all records and you know what would happen to take the arm i see so i said well they specifically said well you're in concert and is that you're very concerned about the radical so forth and he said i'm supposed to read it to infiltrate is a couple of hundred thousand now in december

and i people did forty five million dollars and he said no that's that's right he said would you be willing to fire made that statement through the federal ruling when i came to you in december i'm

saying yes the conversation you read to tell the fbi actually take place so the conversation which you agree with this the reader that you would tell the fbi actually take place in december nineteen seventy one later did you tell the fbi what was he regretted it and such a part of that if you appear at a federal before a federal grand jury and so you ask about the senate candidate and what'd you tell me and were you a witness at the trial of a seven defendants who never indicted in the watergate days and you'll get the same account that was the groove ask you to make any other state

to increase the amount of money and isis because i said the conversation that you're asking me to relate i can conceive of epidemic of a little bit in december if you wanted to it's both

he wanted to hear when was the first time you told andy investigate orrick law doing that he would not testify truthfully of the grand jury that the trial april eighteen really like in seventy three countries are in for opposite the senators took a break after following some of the most startling testimony the whole eight days and begins her reporters just indicated that he helped set up a cover story at the direction of gemstones magruder as the committee pauses for a vote on amendments to an agriculture bill we'd like to thank you that viewers were overwhelming response to these broadcasts we received

more than seventy thousand letters almost ninety nine percent of them in favor of this primetime reply we want to encourage viewers who might still want to offer opinions to let your local public television stations now that's the station you're watching right now dr mccarter letter or if you're so inclined than a government check because local stations depend on you to keep them in business and on the air they're interested in your response as well as you know public television's coverage of the hearings will continue after this was frustration identification madrid coverage of these hearings is provided as a public service by the member stations of pbs a public broadcasting service terry mr pike continues its coverage of hearings by the senate select

committee on presidential campaign activities here again correspondent robert mcneil when hearings resume that was the turn of minority counsel fred thompson <unk> reporters reasons for his apparent perjury at the watergate orders on this man mourning is diverted to read through the two joe

grand jury of all sorts specifically mr thompson was initially to corroborate a story that was going to help the fbi which i thought was in effect replacing a one authorization for another local opposition what is it and you wanted to do it was on

april eighteen although they are they will have that set up the first thing that i want to go to a moment that to answer that question in its context and state thing and here and i said well you know it is

there's bands he said well well he delivered a terrific of the speakers words are you calling on wednesday and on april eleventh and said were firing whom i would call program and you know i said you have to realize you're asking me to the fact that your feet in and sixty people he said yes december

and i said i just do here i'm steve inskeep and we oh no it's

b yeah i wasn't so he said well i think i'm going to get another ten years old on the telephone he said well i really don't he goes over to his attorneys office and they can use you're willing to accept that

and the same day and here and he looked at me a soldier nothing us the whole history of the whole course of history is going to be changed i didn't realize that and he said no no he's nine

the names you know and he said that that was the reader is going down and probably the prosecutor's side will certainly give you the courtesy of going down first appreciate it ms rivers killing at least indicate to me that he wanted to do everything he can to the expert at from that situation so sir in your mind's <unk> the new governor doesn't like mr sharp said to me if a voter is going to go back to the

us attorney's office we would certainly give you courtesy of going for essentially and then so he later that evening about ten fifteen and in the name of two or three colors here in washington mr murray was on that list following saturday afternoon next day when iran and mr st john's church afternoon among other things he told me that he had been to the us attorney's office that morning saturday morning and i was and i said how that happens at well over greater be this morning an instructive me absolutely not calling what

you're discussing with anyone i'm sorry said so but really he says the night before that he had made an appointment to see the next morning now to discuss in my opinion and it's all over

possibly mean it's all over the states all over as the president has directed everybody whose exact words he said i had a meeting with him and was he really he also told me that he had been to the federal prosecutors that morning he also told me that there were going to be several indictments and was a series of names number of names of people that he thought would be indicted philip reeves reporting

twenty four a few days i would say maybe two or three days after western records letter became public and water part of mark mr mcgregor called me on the phone i was still in my office at the inaugural committee and said what do you think very concerned about an apartment i don't think is he's not talking about the iv said there is a legacy isn't something like that is that

you his images and i said before you were injured even before he went to the grand jury i did

in his office committee said he didn't think i want to know begin by asking me what new orleans whether victims of a possible but i pretend i don't i don't see why i don't know you're welcome you leave you know i can start

and he did but i do remember him saying back and said wow isn't all you've done is this in balance a little he said that's all he said the problem of nothing or about i said do you think you know representing the committee made available to anybody who was making up the audiences are renters and in this civil suit and i said do you think he's an icon i might be a little disruptive because things are coming down to a

close and where it would take somebody new a long time to learn the debates we've been on the same for many months now and he said i don't think we have a conflict of interest here representing your entrance in the single well inside it in a slightly different context mr back in july late july seventeenth <unk> mcgruder said to me what it means to write a statement of short circuit a little bit of a utopian roots members we went

to the rebel calls for north koreans who want a lot of questions oh sure mr levine right i have no reason to worship question one

starting in january in june in august nineteen seventy and there was a pre trial meeting i believe it might be four or two nights

before matter which before the trial that was a relief i didn't either i think the muslim ruler of the last two years of thousands of records does that

work well have some information now you're welcome mm hmm welcome

eugene on the evening of a political trial listen to you right so it mr eugenides because you do

well you know what but at the same thing you know that was that was on friday afternoon april thirteen and that was that mr mcgrew is the but you won't tell you it would oh

yes and that was it and i remember that he said anything other than girls and i initiated the question was able to network can leave it to which he responded but i don't think that's a benefit embellish a little time with our guest mr paul ryan said i don't think they'll go and it did not use a you know your

listeners know now i know that you went to see mr schaap who was in the us and this is not going to do it but he recommended is to talk with you now city did not eat eat he said that that he said that it would be unwise or maybe two to retain an attorney attorney mike koenigs main breached or that i call him and have my attorney call no and that's when i had an espn via knew annie and i asked him the whole sense he's the one who had an effect do that right

specifically if we go down in cities we will certainly get you yes you can to do that i skated happens to be a lawyer but i didn't go to him because he was a

lawyer and and to show an experience i think and i suddenly we talk about it i think you got to project yourself back a little bit in a period of time we were this was this was in the heat of battle in the campaign we were here were to loyalists or talking to get between each other about the prospect of having no the democrats are and he had to come in that are going on are our whole campaign wide open so i wasn't concerned about things like pulling in state strategy and research in advertising in all these other things could be made public so i thought i was two he made a comment to me he said after thinking about the set up thank you

billy mr mcgregor had no reason to mistrust and all that that neither you nor anybody else was involved and and he specifically said that it was important that that the investigation be confined to the watergate and i didn't think that i was doing things you know my friend said to me well i think he was speaking rather rhetorically what difference does it make what the money was for this purpose of this purpose if what they're saying is that libby devoted fans in and what happened that something illegal if one thing is not in this the president and the other one isn't he's the best

and that's a feeling you know jesus the us i do now this conversation your conversation

oh yeah west was convicted i remember up to that time and it always maintained you didn't know at that time the state to do that though they blow that some people go to jail and i think the victims we will not go to jail he's an adult yesterday

typically the peak i'm not going to try to take you over the same testimony that council on the chairman at political problem b and b critical of her positions on trade rather than the environment around the fighters and circumstances that lead to choose where falsely apparently before the grand jury a united states district court rather than elaborate expand

father the situation that we do this what this character that i like a pro your reasons and motivations are i'd like to start with how you got into the dirty tricks business what you got out at the time and what you thought i will eventually replace its beak first time i ever heard the word dirty tricks i think that was her sometime in the fall nineteen seventy one and i had to ask him what well he asked me if i knew what that

was and i said now at some of the activities i had then i remembered something out of the nineteen sixty four presidential campaign of work president johnson had a group called i think it was a group of twelve young attorneys and white house staffers that night in the white house every afternoon during a campaign plan it was referred to heart messed up so the chairman has

explained you and the committee that we intend to ring calling for further testing and circumstances and departments slightly but i want to answer to your motivations and reasons i'm not now but this time searching for the right time any insight you can give me as to why a young man with your background with your education with iran us intelligence found yourself and your job arguably involved and a dirty tricks operation i need to know more i don't think i was in germany during the campaign on lowering barriers to what our new intern on it dispenses ceremonies at certain individuals

out of the camera from october of seventy one until maier's images of the nineteen seventy two some sixty nine thousand dollars about fifty two thousand dollars of that sixty nine thousand dollars i was going to use them so the reports of the use of what i did not know at the time saw or worse as i did not know that it was asked to do type of individual to do and the activities that were born during the first

person that i did that for about two weeks and i remember and then the second question was it was paid for creative about three miles and participated in some of the primary campaigns that was just about the extent of the us was doing because i would you know of anyone else does it you're hiring people for crimes as i understand the essence of your testimony this point and seventy five percent of the money is unaccountable or you cannot account for twenty minutes in the money can that you are two men to do it as you put it kicked out the operation so is this beatrix operation that you referred to earlier just as mr mcgregor

indicated to me that money hadn't been that mr libby and another now what he said was that they were not illegal under what mr libby had a family plan was illegal and was not part of that of that authorization would you ever any doubt in your mind of a crime about the propriety but the legality of that oh i didn't know what he was referring to another he didn't he never explained many of the dirty tricks i don't think that answers my question again if you ever had any qualms about that it what you're doing and i'm a stable for primes are dirty tricks or whatever it was i'm probably in your state of course

i think it's one one center that in all honesty that i really couldn't see what effect that and reelecting president announced this on the other hand in all but no i didn't wasn't the one to stand up in a meeting in an unsafe condition so you know you are it's not precisely that point that like other witnesses as this character sees where does the system right now when concern about what wine as distinguish what is leaking is never sir or never thought about and you don't stand up and do everything

what would you do about it and honestly probably because of the fear of a group that for that would ensue of nineteen year and the fear of not being a team player was strong enough to suppress your judgment on what action you take if you considered an action i'm not going to consider illegal you think he's a political organization should be so anonymous sold military an obedient so careful for the concerns up their approval oh that'd each and every member of that

organization at least up until a certain point and level of your essential chart completely empty uses patents and yet knows what cause to educate your own captions and disapproval if you didn't disapprove of the frankfurter introduce operation survey their mind more of this series many months ago the men the united states i first met the years old in nineteen forty six

he ran for congress in my home district and the war nixon ate when i was ten and when i was sixteen and i want them to work for my father worked for him and campaigned my mother worked on campaigns i've been all my life not personally but in spirit i feel a big sense of oily fluid at this point when we have the warning bell on the wrong call you know your return and when we do animals' owner baker's a chance to get the motivation of her report the committee is taking another break to vote on an amendment to a pending farm bill order sings to be sign that senator baker's over emphasizing the importance of his role on the whole affair which was a public television's complete coverage of the hearings continues after station identification on average coverage of these hearings is provided as a public service by the member