1973 Watergate Hearings; 1973-06-05; Part 4 of 5

it's been they realize that there was a similar it was on a subsequent meeting with mr silver that i describe that to him it was in a previous meeting it was in the previous regime well you know for years it to investigators that something was canceled <unk> haven't returned and the nature of the proceeding

changed subsequently city of adventure and you're there all yes on that friday which was actually it was in the newspaper before i knew what was going to happen i mean in the newspaper that granting that i was to be subpoenaed yes because before this committee discusses this to me i suggested

we said a meeting and then i chose not to attend conversations about as i understand it and he said well we'll have to find someone how but if we find you online and parkinson who were counseled to the committee i said that that would be acceptable subsequently called mr rhyne and eleven o'clock that morning and said and i didn't think it was appropriate to testify you know like how do you measure ryan lizza he was counsel to the committee and i think he said to help

you you have to realize you have independent counselors and maybe that's the situation he is expecting to be there and i was ten and then his response was extremely heavy and he felt that he wanted to know what i was feeling he also indicated to me that i think he was very much out of this committee and the serenity and apparently we we just discussed briefly the nature of the evidence the prime minister's visit was that

i'm renee montagne he also sings there was no internet there was a point on that day we want to be with him and you can tell and he said

he was disappointed instead that was innocent that was disappointing to me indicating that he was going to have a meeting visual aids and i think one of the cities cars

and civilization i'm melissa block the beak it's bittersweet the sequence of events

it's an initiative it is mr weiner he i think came into the room and said what is if you're going to call me in aspic and then he then said something to be effective let's call it i think that's right

and so when he plays that class and i had the impression that this was a recall having been placed to this report was a total level worrier we're the first ones biggest river in nature the question is what was my wife of pitcher well as i recollect the opinion that it is a little bit of this is my best recollection astronomer began the conversation by describing the evening news and what had been shown the evening news and the second thing that he discussed i think was security it seems to me that he must have said something like everything's ok now to be

something you know something have i stayed calm can i help or something to that effect and say what is it that you want and that's where mr mcgregor i think again describing precisely what it was that he wanted and that was true ok now to me as to whether mr mcgrew to use the word gemstone to describe exactly what it was that he wanted removed i don't know if it was my initial recollection that you probably get because it's a second phone call that i came to know exactly that that child should be removed among other things he may not in and i just the solar system to remove material for most reporters or the senate that it was left to me to determine which materials it was the question of whether to describe that phone call

the major vessels our usual for all said he returned to follow on monday morning without the correct yes i read his testimony i believed that he did say that it was a monday morning my recollection of his return if i was not that was monday morning but you know i don't do it what was contained but in nature the phone conversation the idea but that was a phone conversation which indicated to you which violin that's correct which follow it was opposed to this conference

so i i don't have any knowledge or you know as many phone calls as between the group mr stone and demonstrations of ok i've read that there was a strain the press recently in your knowledge or not ok it's my impression of mr golson was a meager that i i think i described earlier testimony here that at the time of mr hoover's death there was a demonstration i think it was here in capitol hill at that time it seems to me mr mcgregor received a phone call in which he was instructed to get the counter demonstrators no i wasn't monitoring phone call i was sitting in front of him when he received a phone call and so i don't know exactly who it

was it was my impression that mr carlson that did that and the reason i say that is that i think i subsequently said i expressed some surprise about the activity and then he you look at something along the lines of it's a throwaway we get into things like this because that allows us to say no it's important you're referring to and it was my impression that it was on the circumstances if we can't stand it what was call on a subsequent mission the reason i remember this is that he made some joke about the fact that he got himself in trouble with making ends up in trouble is that he had remove the

individual who was supposed to be sitting in front of the white house are wearing a mcgovern he said he called a talking place that individual there initially i guess and and again it was my impression impressionist and he demonstrated june twenty for their removal process of material material in russia as to whether other individuals of the committee removed material i don't know as to what material that wasn't the committee and you know i can't be sure but i have testified today that i was asked to go through to revisit the house and to to centralize the sensitive political material anything sensitive don't think so i mean i

don't mean that as just a material that was no others are too or you know wherever you were to go through is housecleaning no sir nineteen seventy two decision interesting people on that particular decision did mr strong play a role in the assassination of a journalist who wrote you know subsequently i was the

contact the white house and therefore those memories that we're just discussing that incentivized for years after july one seventy two and so forth her own observations are concerned there very real mr nico and the fact that i became part of a great executive assistant for my impression was that it certainly was that the cardinals were a real role the activities of the committee for the reelection of president increased as time went on that the burden on the campaign director

increased as the campaign went on and therefore the activities <unk> mcgregor performed mayhem and different than those of mr mitchell perform because of his own talents and because of the fact that there was more to do many of the campaign generally mr mcgregor atlanta where decisions concerning the campaign mr pollan was informed after july first as it was prior to july first when an information cases the decisions were those the campaign director ever try to happen through gemstone fall after june seventeen years in a

conversation and i think i began to go into the chairman conversations that day it seems to me he can so it was a very kind of things congress the specific event that senators indicated is that

it came into the stat that the first time was not in those materials that i have described as in the ones that i was asked to move on june seventeen it was something like the subject and there were two such memos that i remember having them are destroyed or something like that and that in the box and it was from those two memos but i had i gather an impression of a subject matter but as to whether the means of obtaining information on those two pieces of general intelligence that that i have testified that it's there the recalls and this is the

question when i recognized things and i believe that there were crystal was brought up in that connection that sounds familiar i don't know specifically that i didn't see that we are crystal clear that it has the police and it seems to me that i didn't see one or two other memos that concerned demonstrators concern of the kinds of things that i think is to record has testified about here before but as to whether or not they related to the giants and cristal or anything like that i can't be specific but most ranchers who thousand last month alone was employed by a committee i don't know i think it is true that this is a dangerous region into one individual it was my impression that that individual was receiving compensation for approximately sixty six

years now somalia and so i was not assertive no time have i indicated that i have indicated that the idf has to be located at one point in time that i think it's as close as i can come is to identity you're going to give it to you she'll do so i think the nature of the reluctance the circumstances under which the conversation took place i think that had it and the other way and grew seven and phone conversation you take that file i would think

at any reason to there was a recent hesitation i think is because i didn't know where the fire was at the time that he was saying to me on the phone you can find the file and it's not just the nature of the germs with this exception circumstantial understanding of clicking no sir attempt to do so right i didn't mean i did not meet with mr gruber and as i also indicated that i think he took back this effect that was intended to

influence i think he apologized for that i have received phone calls other individuals who had business before this committee is just right he did not ask me that he did not try to influence me anyway just indicated he'd like to get together and throw council it on my eye i was also columnist reporter it was awful was your hero of some of the organization reporters not to my knowledge then chooses to someone oh it was a lot of has to have a conversation with his people are standing in front of an early in the

year in which he's convinced it something to the effect we found a company where we can have some individual who was working for mr porter within a company so inflation is a little fuel was an age of the demonstration at the demonstrations and i don't know reading newspaper accounts in it politically i can fill in my own understanding of what took place i think the significance of that also is it wants to ride it didn't seem that significant at the time it's buttery committee of the world and

are best left in part of the state in an effort to expedite the proceedings in a way to finish your testimony today so if the razor repetitious there with me and speaking it's my mother's day of this committee on three separate a forester for patients an evangelistic asian literature it is directly a response to his team and i think you have me i think he was right you carry

on that's upstairs we appreciate your comments you had indicated in fact that you thought there were certain discrepancy is if you'd like a player based on your understanding of the facts and the fact is that mr coll yes and that's the point long range would you describe for me then where you've got additional clarification was required use of the testimony of mr well done it seemed to me that there were a few questions it seems to me what was discussed in conversation

philip molloy for a meeting with specialists on testimony <unk> i don't think there are any significant conflicts are here to be commended for all that information not richard to clarify point mysteries murdered you understand that's true burden and you're just gives me want to the june seventeenth century and the watergate our lives to discuss the nature of the situation and your role in the investigation or any other aspect or not not testified yet i did have several conversations with mr mcgregor

subsequently june seventeen in which the subject came up major meet and talk with twitter mr alonzo the only surprise was this at he expressed his displeasure with his decisions really easy for the record he was trying to say to mr ryan and senator paul ryan is a lawyer in washington who was employed by the reelection committee and impeccable was just providing advice and the advice was you simply if you want to keep your own council you write about what you should say to the staff

needs to tell you anything you know i understand that you mention a conversation with mr gruber an anonymous partner on the other top moment you thought might be nice to go out and listen to receive a phone call that it was my impression is from the steeples are just for not being president about that testimony but even acknowledging the repetition would you tell me what you've raised that conclusion it just seems to be an impression that day it seems to me that as secretary sitting practically entrance to his office might have said that mr carlson or something i'm not i'm not trying to protect those people's

occasionally have some occasions so you're speaking of mr mcgregor senator yesterday there are any number of ways in which i could have been the impression that mr carlson father he subsequently i remember having a conversation with this kind of thing it's the nature of the trial testified today on this that i think the staff was asking me about demonstrators and they were saying well what will catch do you have any knowledge of demonstrators and i said i was a total of your information on the

question of the finest caution there's the other end of the telephone to the best of my recollection mean circumstantially counseling and feeling they're both you and vegetables it easier for an impression that what goes on the other and the telephone which you cannot lie additional information on which to base their judgments are very statement here perhaps even i think our physical senses the histories for shorter and have another grow very shortly as with other witnesses i surrender willingly return for testimony messenger has

been who knows and then in the pacific mm hmm it is thank you

imagine following that meeting this infusion of the time mr levine no

there is one occasion twenty one disasters in the notation i think this is the election what kind of

advertising i don't know in recent years this week it just means that in the show and i can only guess i think that that would've meant that was just a continuing those people

seems to be a better place i imagine those people why wait he was depressed philip reeves reporting this

morning it was i don't know the money you mentioned that on some occasions when you yourself are also follows a committee

and it was going to get it you have you should be looking for testimonies allows that indicates that i don't and the reason i say a is this expression but it was not there were other times that he was working on something and i didn't know what it was immediately i was was not my concern things were extremely close tiny conventions for example mainstream

is it so clearly extraordinary several occasions after that june seventeen and thoughtful do about any testimony might be giving the us has never contacted by anybody in the committee or the west after

june seventeenth were you sometimes simultaneously i'm vice president and not unusual and he knows i think that there has been a new story saying that some of the neighbors and the presence of counsel in those interviews i was aware that there was anything else it was there was an extraordinary number you mentioned concerning concerning certain activities

that took place in the campaign there were individuals that the white house who were primarily concerned with us and mr mcgregor would have unquestionably discussed things with those people just because they were the ones who were responsible as to whether he reported reporting relationship was when cornish reporting you mentioned on june seventeen with that florida's republican senator edward kennedy has completed his questioning of robberies the other committee members will also are questions about how the committee to reelect president operated and who reported that no and public television's continuous coverage of the watergate hearings will continue after this pause for a station identification

on average coverage of these hearings is provided as a public service by the member stations of pbs the public broadcasting service it's both the

point of it and pike continues its coverage of hearings by the senate select committee on presidential campaign activities you again correspondent jim lehrer we now return of the hearings as new mexico's senator joseph montoya begins his questioning of robberies during these questions the committee

members were in the room for a floor vote and as a result there were some overlap and questions because of the absences we have two of the mystery known as administrative assistant who was jan brewer you of course knew who you know he was going to meet every day when i was there is that correct i would say approximately yesterday and byron white for how many meetings did he have several times a week and what individual thing

it would depend on the nature of the meeting if the main concern that advertising for example a list repeated daily company well as a main concern was concerned with clandestine activities who were clandestine activities at davis's retrospective in the sense that i think that there were activities that way the names have been about twenty of those names are connected with some activities that with anyone at any of those individuals and the justice with the justice team oh yes

how many patients would you say are you aware or you have a nominee yeah i think it might be after being in the newspapers about right now when you were ten eight are our un his activities with vibrant <unk> individuals to disrupt any part of the campaign to some of those activities to employ individuals to disrupt

i cannot say that i was there are individual incidents to which i had testifying for example there's the hoover fuel testimony they discussed today well over the phone call which indicates that it was related to an activity i did not have any notion of any of that kind of activity except circumstantial well you're right how are quite white house composer sometimes border yesterday that we're aware of other similar incidents a distinction here which may not be a good one the distinction is that it seemed to me at the time that the purpose of that individual sitting in for the white house and i learned that individual after he had been removed and then was replaced with the purpose of that was

some sort of a public relations effort it was the publicity needs right now well the negative publicity percent of the concept and that negative publicity has disrupted other instances individuals like that well yes testified that i was aware of an individual who i think was returned to identify who was referred to as an engineer and that that individual was obtaining information it seemed humphrey campaign now as to whether that individual worker mr humphrey and was disgruntled and that at that moment and passed information now i can't say i mean it could've been less negative where were you aware that there was a plan being executed to employ individuals

to pose as a melon supporters at the democratic national convention and you can go to internet and that's all this was under the sponsorship of the crp let me let me be specific about this because just a minute ago when i said that i was aware of that individual what i was aware of was the purported fruits is activity i you know and that's how i learned about the individual now has to a plan to employ someone in their i i listened to the conversation we just really basically burst into ms rivers office and said i have this idea now i don't know when the idea was to employ supporters who opposes this mcgovern support the democratic national convention about that conversation but the nature the conversation was literally coming in and saying i have this great idea and that the idea that included i think i'm playing some sort of

demonstrators who would wear mcgovern identification that maybe well i think that there was one occasion salad and i think that describes to your staff a woman who would just roll the democratic national convention and that was the nature of a conversation now that that's important to point out because i had no idea whether <unk> would've said that was a good idea that in certain point he certainly did not indicate he was a good idea at the time he just was amazed he was in jail our mystery where are you where many other clans along the same lines with respect to the conduct of the democratic national convention

and you know whether or not any of the individuals that were engaged in this bugging are trying to disrupt the campaign activities on the most accurate most information ever seen aren't you know i was just reading those you know and on it does that these orders now when you the law and this particular law which you were presented to the committee reflect all the appointments the distiller at our one another individually the certainty to my knowledge of the day calendar diary was kept by my secretary would reflect his schedule accurately and they're all individuals

that he met with unless he would just stop by their offices to see them would be reflected in their calendar did mr mahmoud i'm a very frequently with mr libby in his office or an estimate all i don't know that mr libby's office i don't imagine that you did it seems to me that he probably met with mr libby on a number of occasions but not frequently their relationship was not they did not get along gravel nominee the main venue and mr o'toole decided to take thousands of file voters this it's my understanding as has been testifying here to previously that you took what was known as the advertising file and that you turned over

what is what has been caught the strategy filed too much in order to take home with me that's correct yes home some things in addition to that you know what i took home the first thing that i remember taking an instrument at his desk was there was a wave of poles that was conducted in its name and that was the most sensitive polling information we had was some analysis of the polling information there was also a file a large thick file that contain the operating plans in the key states that we consider important following ins beginning in july in addition to that there was this advertising file in fact what it was was not appetizing file concerning the november the committee for the reelection of preston advertising that file concerned

the creation of the democrats for nixon and was therefore which have not yet been created mr conley not return from this trip and it was why wasn't it was i don't think it was a really interesting mix democrats all over the country to be supporters of the president one was the advertising final such that it can contain advertising are plans for advertising something derogatory against democratic candidates know negative advertising at fourteen he was going to represent the

information now up to that that you didn't know what was in the gym file are you knew that there was something very strategic in the gym trial well why did you it was the only really big fire it's sensitive in retrospect expensive in the fact finding out of the concern that there's no concern illegal activities that if that was an ordinary intelligence just things that mr libby had been gathering somehow through his sources or whether you're in a perfectly legal way it would've been sensitive but it wouldn't have been any more sensitive than anything else that was typical i mean my relationship with

israel there was no reason not to give it what to do on that day doing a shredding mr parnell did you in any sense of when they do any shrine yes now it was about that subsequently eye on monday morning as i indicated one on friday i had been given a doctrine which i presume was a document given an honorable which was marked sensitive material when i was given a truly unique at me that it was a couple and it was standard operating procedure for me to get rid of copies there were five copies made it all the documents that were given to mr mitchell and clearly that was unnecessary for the files many of them were sensitive right now in

that monday morning following the seventeenth i discovered that i had not in fact taken home the cup and not given a couple of destroyers and instructed i understood that the new testament did you it's conceivable that might have been something that is now destroyed you mean in the final document there's a distinction and that distinction is original it is extremely unlikely that i would've destroyed something that was the original without having the gruber indicated he didn't need it anymore well actually sending major receive any instructions and pursuant of those instructions included receive the proceeds go categorize documents

as sensitive or confidential and then proceed to shred those are instructions were fine to sensitive materials that may be in the finals and give them to me which is good and i think you're indicating the previous testimony that you want to centralize the sensitive documents in one particular file that you get to the injured what i did was i called the files to find things that are sensitive gave them to mr mcgrew is it's conceivable that he put them all in one file it's conceivable he may have given them back to me and they may have thought that was a pretty random selection of materials now you mention the use of chemical and then what about the tracks that were out in this journey which were being

violently you do see those charges no sir i'm not seeing anything that identifies as charged i saw a package at approximately the same time the size and shape of the insurance where was that that he's taken on that job fair where the fourth visit to the attorney general's office i didn't seen as a living even at a meeting and i don't know some little thing no no in

march mr mcgregor yes i think generally in line with those of other people in similar decisions between april nineteen seventy three it became a must stop assistance of the united states that it was exactly the same as it was when i worked for mr mcgregor it was nineteen thousand dollars and from april nineteen seventy three to the state office of management and budget yes it was a political

impasse goes on with the communist dictatorship therefore when i was given when i was offered this job the offer was made and it would have been a one grape increase over the busiest thirteen salary to exist fourteen salary which is what i am now at the office's first twenty three thousand something foreign country for our kids allegations mr rollins