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Mary Louise Simon I'm elected and re-elected to the County Board of Supervisors in Dane County and vice chairman of the Dean County Board of Supervisors secretary of the ding County Regional Planning Commission and chairman of the Dane County Public Health Committee. And that takes a lot of time. Anyway it also took a long time to grow up and you know you're all in that in that process. And by the time you get to be 40 which I reached 10 years ago you sort of heave a sigh of relief and you moan and you groan and you know you're moaning because you're getting into the ripe old age and you heave a sigh of relief because you assume that now you're mature and you know all the answers and you can take any of the blows that come to you. And you know what to do about all sorts of crises particularly after you've raised four children the way I have. So I earned every one of the gray hairs on my head at any rate. I figured at 40 that I was mature and it was quite obvious that my figure was at least mature. But then something else happened and I began to get sensitized by the women's
movement and I found this a very astounding kind of experience. And I guess before I start I'm sensitive by the women's movement but I have not yet adjusted to saying person instead of his or her. So I'm going to say lots of his instead of hers and chairman instead of chairwoman. And you know I may be guilty but I don't mean anything by it. That's a sort of disclaimer the way I was sense that other women's movement was very personal in the beginning because it helped me realize where I had been all these years. I was taught that I had been all my 40 years 50 years I've been put in my place by men and kept there. But the problem was that I really didn't realize that I had been put in my place all those 40 years and kept there I was perfectly happy and
I was in sort of blissful ignorance. I had all of that all the good things in that kind of world. In my ignorance I was I had a good supportive family. I had a very good education I had plenty of money. I married a man who let me do what I wanted to do when I wanted to do it and my children think it's great I'm in politics so I was happy and didn't realize that I was being put in my place and kept there until I got into politics. Until I was sensitized by learning what other women were having to experience and the discrimination they were having to experience. So I guess I was really free to do what I wanted to do and free to do what I found to be interesting. And the first thing that I found to be interesting was the League of Women Voters in Madison and I was active in the league for oh five or six years now on the board of directors in the league in Madison on State League committees. And one of the things that I did for the League of Women Voters was
work on minority housing in Wisconsin. And then. From that came into being president of Madison citizens for fair housing. And that was when Madison was trying to pass an equal opportunities ordinance in 1963. We passed the Equal Opportunities ordinance and there is a commission set up under that ordinance. But the process of being chairman of the citizens group left me in such a state of nervous disrepair that I couldn't accept a department to the commission I just couldn't face it at that point. I had gotten so much opposition and flack and got so emotional about it I needed to rest. But eventually I did become chairman of that equal opportunities ordinance. Equal Opportunities Commission. But then one conservative mayor became mayor of Madison and my appointment was up for reappointment. He indicated that
because I did not support his candidacy he couldn't really appoint me. So I didn't get put back on the commission. That was in 1969. And here I was that worked up all these head of steam about doing things publicly and some feeling of confidence about being able to stand up for what I thought was right publicly. And it didn't seem you know useful to put it to let it go to waste so I ran for public office thinking out of doors supervisors and got elected. Much to my surprise I must admit. This was to the county board Dane County at that time there were forty seven supervisors and the majority of them came from the city of Madison. I was one of those from the city of Madison. But one of my first rude shocks about how women are really considered. In politics came when the Wisconsin county boards Association had a conference their annual statewide conference. And women were somewhat of a phenomenon in that
group because there they tend to the county boards tend to be older and older man and Mark conservative and very rural in their. Point of view. So that when some women appeared at the county boards Association meeting and we were interested in taking part in the discussion that went on the floor. Everybody raise their eyebrows and put us down and didn't respond and indicated that they thought women were out of their place and participating in the discussion in this conference. And in fact not only man but I had one woman who'd been on a comedy board for 10 years come up to me and say I don't know why you participated in that discussion you put our cause back 10 years you know this is one of the routine kind of shocks you experience when you are active in politics. The other sort of funny time I had was on a Dane County Board summer party steak
fry which was really a time when people drank a lot of beer and had a good time all day long. So some of us who were on the board at that time three women there were on the board and decided we'd go but we go late because we didn't want to drink beer all day long and that wasn't our our interest at that point. So I arrived and the supervisor former supervisor whom I hadn't met came up to me and began berating me for being a representative of women's liberation. And. At the same time looking me up and down in a way that was the most insulting experience I've ever had you know just putting me in my place is a piece of female baggage. And that sort of put it where it was female lib. Women's lib and. Sex object but fortunately not everybody is that way. But the next step higher you're treated as a woman. You may not be patted on your derriere but you are patted on the head and treated in the condescending fashion and this happens
from a lot of people who don't really know how to treat women as as. Colleagues in politics. And then my most sensitizing experience was going to the Women's Political Caucus in Washington the first. The first national conference and I went with Mitch Miller and Kay Clarenbach and Betty Smith from Madison and the number of women that were there and the kinds of experiences that those women had had in terms of being discriminated against. Some of them because they were black and some of them because they were poor and some of them because they dared to speak out on things that mattered to them. And these were all experiences that I found you know just completely foreign to what I had experienced and that was that was really a very sort of converging kind of experience. And then we came back to Wisconsin and helped at the Wisconsin Women's Political Caucus started and you'll hear more about that later. And at any rate after being on the county board for two years we have a two year term. I
was up for re-election but in the meantime they had changed the boundary lines for districts in the county. And because the power lies the way it does in the county they drew that ons to try to get the other the people they didn't want to have their out of office. This is called gerrymandering. The term you may all be familiar with. At any rate I got put in with one district with an older man who was also on the board and we were running against each other. And during that election time. Becky Young who was on the board from Madison and I were characterized by some of the older more conservative men on the board as the Gold Dust Twins. Anyway I got reelected in spite and I got elected vice chairman of the board chairman the public health committee and so forth so there are a lot of the rewards that go with it. But with those rewards or responsibilities of course and that's where I spend most of my
time now and am trying to trying to get and keep those things on an even keel and getting some of the things down that we'd like to see done. Part of the role that I play and one of the reasons that I get as much recognition as I do is that I'm sort of a token woman and I'm not a threatening woman because I'm older and I have a very distinct image of being somebody who is stable in the turf and so I don't. I'm not apt to cause waves and cause them a lot of trouble. But I try to take advantage of being a token woman and use it you know in any way that's possible to get some of the things done that I think are important to get. I've been put on a committee of Wisconsin county boards so situationist chairman the urban studies committee and I've been on the National Association of Counties Planning and Development Committee. And now I'm nominated to be on the board of directors of the National Association of Counties but the person that I wanted to nominate me said he was nominating five people from Wisconsin.
And he was going to nominate me as one of those five because I was a woman. And I think it was all right to have one woman nominated. You know I just it was it was so astounding to have him say to me you know it will gradually get more women worked in but we don't want to do it too fast. I just it was difficult for me to respond with any sense of reason about it. One of the things that I've been interested in doing for a long time because of the people Opportunities Commission and equal opportunities ordinance ordinance experience in Madison was the State Rights Council and I did get appointed by the governor of the state Equal Rights Council. And that's a struggling organization at this point and has a token amount of money appointed appropriated for their budget. And I hope that. You know talk and I mean really took an $800 a year for that over saying the state equal rights efforts and. Helping people understand that women and minorities have to
have some special kinds of attention. But I'm hopeful that the new budget will. Something more in the way of pragmatic support for that council. Anyway I guess maybe I'm almost really mature at this point. Having reached the age of 50 and been censored by the women's movement. So I guess maybe you can indulge me in some observations I'd like to make about it. First of all politics is is great and all of you have any indication in yourselves that you'd like to do this. I think you should do it. There are lots of shocks and a lot of hard knocks but by maybe by the time you get in things will be is as difficult as they are at the moment and you need to keep your sense of humor about things because it's terribly frustrating. Politics is a mechanism for not having things happen too
fast so that a sense of humor is. You have to keep your head above water by maintaining your sense of humor. And second of all you have to learn to listen to what people are saying to you and listen to what they mean by what they say and listen for clues about what they're liable to do in the future in terms of any political action because this is very important. You have to pick up all sorts of clues and keep all your feelers out. But there's another reason for listening to people and that is that you. You know I I respect people whether they're bad or good or indifferent or conservative or liberal because they're people. And this means a great deal in human relations and I means a great deal in politics. If you don't respect people if you operate in a way that puts people down they eventually begin to hate you. And you have an all whole other context of of conflict you have to operate in. And
so it's pragmatic and it's wise from the human relations point of view to listen to people. And to respect individuals. Anyway I guess from my messages it you should get involved. And it's really very exciting. Join us when next I go. It's interesting because I always hear that the I'm the only one that started late. But it's nice to hear that people take a while to mature. You know I heard the other day that Bella Abzug didn't get started till she was 50. I got a little bit of you know it's scary right. There are some similarities and it really is a story told you my experience I also started out in medicine in the League of Women Voters and it was a good kind of basic political education because you learn more than you really ever wanted to know about how the local budgets her proof to this sort of thing in terms of political activity which I've always been interested in but just in the point from the point of you you know parlor talk sort of thing a living room conversation I've never
had really been active. Until the McCarthy campaign and at that point I started at the very bottom of licking stamps and ceiling and stuffing because I was too afraid to go door to door so those of you that are still to point you're afraid that you're going to get some antagonism if you knock on subways to I've been there. You know and I know exactly what you mean. I think the point of awakening for me was during the Peterson campaign I don't know how many of you were around but that was in 70 and he was running for governor and a neighbor up the street and I were both approached about handling his campaign in Sherwood Hills which is a very small little community and we knew lots of people there and it should have been very easy for both of us were much too tight to do it you know he said. We couldn't possibly take on that responsibility. Well the Peterson campaign imported an 18 year old freshman to organize surefooted I think at that point Julie and I both looked at each other. You know this is this is just really silly. So it turned out that she had to leave in a couple of months and we kind of took over her job. We weren't very good organizers we
ended up doing most of the canvassing herself. And of course you're supposed to get other people to do it. The first three times out we went together and it was like a Mutt and Jeff. You know my name is and this is you know we're here to talk to you about this you know both of us there to back each other up in case there was a question we couldn't answer. People that know me now have difficulty realizing I was like this because I'm considered to have lots of nerve you know and I have people in my village now since I've gotten this image of being the village organizer that OK I can sense kind of a groan when they pick up the phone and here it's me on the other end because they figure I'm going to ask them to make telephone calls or collect money or something like that. So I kind of let up on that aspect I was they were people that I was very friendly with before they were beginning to him this response when I would call it the most recent political activity that I've been in was started out with the Women's Political Caucus which Mary Louise mentioned before the most exciting thing about that for me has been being with other women that are at all different stages of political
activity some that have been elected to office some would have run other people's campaigns people that are involved in you know working for the state in areas that that interest me. There are a whole wide variety of options that are have opened up to me in terms of things that I can do that I would be interested in as a result of seeing all these other women that in many cases were combining you know care for young children with political activity and working outside the home. It was it one of my first Women's Political Caucus meetings that I naively raised my hand when somebody said which you like to wear you know who wants to work on the Equal Rights Amendment. And I came home I remember from that meeting sick at my stomach practically because I was so afraid that what I had gotten into was more than I could handle. You know and I could I really didn't know what my responsibilities were going to be at that time. As it turned out I you know I had more time than some of the other people that were working on it so I kind of worked into a coordinating position with the Equal Rights Amendment. And it's been a very exciting it's it's the first time aside from raising kids and
managing a home that I've developed any kind of expertise where I feel finally at ease and getting up in front of a group and talking about it. And it's very exciting to me. You know somebody had told me a couple of years ago that I would be particularly here tonight because it's nice to sit down and have a podium but there are human ties at the podium and the first time you know I tried I found all the possible rationalizations I could why I shouldn't do it and I said it was silly because I was the one that knew most about it. So I did it and I didn't fall down and I didn't stutter too badly and all those fears you know that your fantasies go through your mind right. I don't know how much you really want to know who have Equal Rights Amendment. I've been working very hard on it and as a friend of mine said we've been watching it through the Senate I don't know whether you've been reading the papers but it was touch and go there for a while. And this friend of mine Eleanor Fitch is with the League of Women Voters and you know I've even forgotten what it's about. I know I'm for it but we've been working so hard to organize that you lose sight of what you know what the issues are and somebody will say what exactly is it going to do and I have to refer to my notes you know
and even though I you know I helped write the brochure and everything. I think one thing that confuses people. About the Equal Rights Amendment is the relationship between the federally grants and women in the state equal rights ma'am and then there's this implementation package that is described in the brochure. The federal amendment. Of course would cover all states and all states as well as federal laws. And it's a little bit chancy right now it's passed 27 states it's hasn't made quite the progress in the last month or two that everybody expected it to or that everybody was hoping for. And there's also quite a good bit of opposition that is organizing. It's there but there it's not too. Rational there are a lot of fears that are being raised about women are going to be forced out of their home in this sort of thing. She had a good comment. She was tying this in with people's. Fears about you know the different sorts of emerging lifestyles that were coming in saying that they're putting all this on the equal rights of women you know the Equal Rights Amendment is going to change this and actually it's a response
to the different ways that people are living now and the number of women that are working I don't have the figures in front of me but it's close it's 50 percent I think now are more greater so that you know when people talk about women who are going to be forced out of the home and they should be home taking care of their children which the senator said at the beginning of one of our meetings there you know it's it's just senseless. You know women are out you know at this point they need to have equal opportunity quick job opportunities. Just a few words about where the opposition is coming from one thing at a time well it's Yeah OK well I think I know it's a yeah right right. That's exactly how I react but you know it's a right. Yeah as far as who is financing it they just got a publication from now that said we don't know exactly you know it is it appears to be well financed. I had looked at one publication by Congressman Schmitz who ran for the president and of the American party and it's a very
conservative document. He talked you know this fear about what it's going to do the family they're worried about. Women will no longer be eligible for support. Well as Mary you know I've been through the statutes today. I did mention I was one of the special committee that was a legislative council committee that was appointed to go through all the state statutes. So in Wisconsin many of the most the publications or national publications Phyllis Schlafly also has a national publication where she raises all these fears in terms of Wisconsin you know we know exactly what the law says and we know right where the changes are going to be necessary in the committee propose changes that have already been through the legislative council with their approval and you know bills that go through the legislative council have a very high rate of getting passed this is the main package for bedtime reading behavior you only have one copy. So much of what they're saying doesn't apply to Wisconsin. Nevertheless women you know are reacting as though it is and when they say things like women are going to have to provide 50 percent of the family income Well it's I mean it's
silly it's it's hard to respond to that because it's not true. You know what there was there were changes that the 71 legislature made in the Wisconsin support laws. And the main the main angle that that was reflected in all these changes is that if a woman has been supporting partially supporting a family you know or if she's in it and also in situations of child custody that you don't decide on the basis of whether she whether it's a father or a mother that is in need or that is able to support you know you decide on the on the basis of their circumstances so if they if they're prepared to work you know then they should not. Get you no support beyond what they need. You know it's a it's a balancing out of and it's again it's a reflection of the way life is these days you know many women are working. And so it in that sense the law was a reflection of what was happening. Most of the equal rights and equal rights men will deal with very little in terms of family law
because most of these changes they've already made. And you know I there's a it seems to me very logical that you know even though even if there is one sort of lifestyle it's predominant in a country you don't. Legally under rated by your laws you know because that prejudice then another sort of living arrangement. And you know before that law went into effect if if in fact a man was dependent you know some men now are deciding that they would rather be homemakers and women are working you know so that man would not be eligible for any kind of support even though he would be in a position the same as many of us women who have been home for 10 or 15 years of not really having any job skills at that point. So it takes into consideration where a person is in terms of skills and abilities rather than you know presupposing what that person is going to be like in terms of you know sending women out of the family the state does not interfere in a marriage that is ongoing. You know it doesn't come into a marriage and so you're doing things wrong. It's at the point where the marriage breaks up.
You know if you're suing for support or suing for a divorce or a separation and then that's when it goes into court and the judge has to make a decision as to where you know who is the most appropriate person to provide the support was the most appropriate person to take care of the child through the children so that you know this idea that we passed them and all of a sudden whim of her crying to be shoved out the front door you know it's just silly. But it's being raised and it's being listened to and you know. I think you know there were several people kept saying to us as we were watching the Senate you know women are special and you're going to take away all our specialists you know and I was noticing on your little blurb you had women slash equal this was kind of thrown at us they said you know equal and they do if they'd read out of Webster's dictionary and say equal means same. You know you're making women the same as men you know which is just mind you know you get it's difficult to deal with those sorts of arguments because there are not valid. You know another one of those that
talk of separate bathrooms have you heard that you know there's great concern that you can have to share bathrooms and there is a right to privacy that has been used before and most of us share bathrooms with men at one point they're going our lives anyway. You know so but these are the sorts of issues that are being raised the draft is another issue that just Wisconsin won't affect that you know most of us. I have very strong reactions to the draft I have both boys and girls in my family and you know as the horror stories come out I just read one today and in fact about it was a clip from The New Glarus newspaper she was talking about those horrid conditions that fighting men have to go through. You know when do we want women to go through these and I think I don't want men to go through them either you know I don't want my 13 year old to see it actually he's a little less able to carry himself in my girl. Not that they're anything I don't purposely I promise but you know that's you know probably hear them too. Turn the radio off at that point. But you know it's it's individual ability again you know and there may be some women that that would not mind
that you know if you have a volunteer army which is the direction we are in right now typically women have been limited as to how many you know they have had to turn some women away there's been a quota system that women they could get in their armed forces and. This will you know that it will no longer be in effect. Those are really the main ones there. Can you see any you think of any others are any better answers than now. I was wondering if you might tell them how they might help personally and to educate people sense of referendum. Yeah I think you know mainly talking to people there that you know dispelling some of the mist that people say there are several but that's a very brief if you can imagine if that's called from this thing. That's a very brief sort of resume of what the act will do. But then there is the other area where the other group the one criticism that it has validity although it has not much fluidity in Wisconsin is the
issue of protective labor legislation and I don't know how many of you have heard this but it traditionally women have had to be protected in labor situations because they have not been unionized and you know ever since the sweatshops of the 1900s you know women when it was women and children both were worked harder than they should have been with this was behind the original impetus for protective labor laws. Today those situations exist in just very isolated situations from all I can tell you know there. And so that the the what the protective labor legislation succeeds in doing now is keeping women out of some jobs because if an employer has on his job specifications that you must be available for overtime. Up until last year and that was not because the equal rights maybe that was because of a Department of Industry labor and human relations ruling. Up until last year you know that in Wisconsin that a woman could be denied a job
because she was prohibited by law from working more than nine hours in a day. Well there are clearly women that need to work longer than them that want to work longer than that and they don't have home responsibilities or many even if they do have home responsibilities have have to earn more money. They need the overtime so it became more preventive than protective you know. And although I've been in contact with a woman in Macross who was who has been passing out equal rights memo petitions but saying you know that she really she has fears about the protective legislation being completely off the books because of the dealer ruling last year and because of Title 7 most of the effect of the Equal Rights Amendment would just be to underwrite that effort it doesn't it's not really going to change situations for women in Wisconsin. But it you know it does you know it has a psychological effect of underpinning it you know it gives another court that people can't sue if on the basis of discrimination and so you know I think that it will be the
end result will be that women will organize more to they haven't needed to organize up until this point because they have had this layer of protections. There are no weightlifting laws in Wisconsin which is one thing that some people have been concerned about. In some states. And once I think it's Utah the weight lifting restriction is £15 you know no woman can lift more than 15 pants. You know it's just it's a credible. Minimum wage is one year it one law we have on the books and according to our you know our special committee's recommendations which haven't really been fought yet you know and they've been through the legislative council that would be extended to me and so you know in areas where we the committee felt that legislation was good and you know protective legislation was important we extended that to me and in some other areas like benefits for survivors. If a woman has been a public employee in a retirement system and died her husband was not able to collect any death
benefits. And but if her husband was the one who was working and she was the one that survived she was able to. And this seems clearly unfair. You know 65 or 70 year old man is not going to be that much more self-supporting than a 65 or 70 year old woman. You know there really are a lot of benefits for men too. And I point this how do you know that it's not a it's not a sexist bill. Oh I think it can only have good effects. I tend to be interested in the psychological affects you know the sorts of putdowns that Mary Louise was talking about. And you feel this very strongly in the statutes and that you'd be interested in knowing there's one there's one section that talks about it's talking about limiting corporations in terms of supporting candidates and issues but it says that you may publish opinions as to whether it would be advantageous or disinvest teaches to your membership. For of men a spouse things certain issues you know and we change that to persons so that
women could be as threatening as me I think of the situation. I don't know where they're at. Right. I think it will pass I. But it's partly faith. You know I think when we were going through the statutes you know these changes that I've been talking about the Wisconsin budget Slater's have already made in the area of family law and in the area of employment. Wisconsin is a fairly progressive state there. There are six other states that have had their own equal rights amendment on their ballots and they have all passed one was very close in either Oregon and Washington I can't remember and I think Wisconsin you know can do that well the problem is that the longer the time goes on the more the opposition organizes and there were there were booklets being sent to senators you know raising these issues that as explained are mostly false. You know there was one called Look out they're going to draft your daughter that was on every So interesting house came home also under with the Wisconsin Amendment
people who are who are suing on the basis of discriminatory treatment can go to local courts rather than a federal court in our federal court system is very overcrowded and you know it's cost more to go through that process so we're certainly making it easier and also making bringing more things under it talking about a statement. She mostly Andrew took this case and Shiller Swanson. I guess I could start by saying that I wasn't really a feminist when I joined the Women's Political Caucus and I'm here to talk about Women's Political Caucus. How do you know when your feminist Wow I guess when you begin bristling when you go to the doctor's office and then those calls you in for your for your treatment because you Mrs. Burton Swanson or whatever your your husband's name has to be. Or when a man when you go into a store to buy something and the man says refers to you by
some nice family like sweetie or or or baby or something like that. Yeah. Or catch you on the head very condescendingly like Mary Louise said before and you. You really begin to bristle at these things and to write letters to the to the directors of your of your local medical clinic complaining that they're not treating you as a as an individual. Then I guess you know you've arrived. Also my husband said that he would vouch for the fact that I have finally become a feminist and it's not easy really especially when it comes to trying to mesh careers and trying to decide who is going to do the household duties and how you're going to share things equal it is it's it's not an easy revolution but I think you basically have to have faith and. I guess a lot of years a lot of commonsense and a lot of understanding of one another's.
Personalities and needs in this sort of thing and I think we're all going to come out better in the end for it. I guess I'd join the political caucus and I joined by hearing about the very first meeting that was held in Wisconsin to organize the state caucus. As Mary Louise indicated was organized first on the national level and shortly thereafter the various states began to organize. And the first organizational meeting was here in 90 and 71 in the fall of 1971. And actually my husband heard about it before I did on the radio. And I had been searching for something to get involved with here I have a background in political science I have a master's degree and I had like run for political office in school and this sort of thing and I had been an active volunteer voluntarily in political campaigns ever since I've been in school. I actually when I was in grade school I had the audacity to run against a man for president of the
student council. I came in second so I was vice president that didn't seem to upset anybody too much. Now ironically I was beaten out for the office of secretary in college by a man who I think was the first man who had been elected secretary but when I look back on it I'm sort of glad he won because it was a good a good chance for a role reversal. And I had played it participated for instance in starting back in college and then in the McCarthy campaign in California where we were living at the time. I had also worked in a congressional office and you know Washington for about nine months. Is a highly underpaid. Under-recognized and overworked congressional secretary. And if any of you have worked as one or no one you know you know what that's like. It's wonderful work but. But the. It's very interesting work but the women have definitely been. Been under-recognized underpaid in that field and I say had some vague
notions that I wanted to get involved with something political and I was also beginning to read about the feminist movement at this at this point. I had never I hadn't been a member of the League of Women Voters and at that point before the caucus about the only alternatives were as either a member of the sort of ladies auxillary in either the major political parties or the League of Women Voters which really I think laid the foundation for a lot of what has happened by doing a lot of the really necessary issues study work getting women involved that way. And then the political caucus came around and there's been a very interesting. Mesh. I think. The two organizations and then the coming along of organizations like National Organization of Women were all getting together very well and every organ each organization is supportive of the aims of the other organization. But I wasn't really interested in studying the issues because I guess I have studied as a political science major and I studied in my life and I really
wanted something a little different but I wasn't sure what. Then I heard about the Women's Political Caucus and its purpose was to involve women in the political process both by encouraging women themselves to run and by organizing other women to get behind other women to run for office and also to try and get women into appointed positions. And this remains the basic purpose of the Women's Political Caucus both on the national and the state level. We have here in Wisconsin we have a state policy committee. Some of you may have read about the state convention and are actually are just a second state convention which took place in January and it was just the most fantastic experience. There must have been 200 or so women who came in for the whole convention and others coming in for part of it and leaving and just the spirit was was fantastic I don't think anyone stopped talking for
more than more than those sleeping hours if that the whole time it was just such a. Just a wonderful way to get to know other women and where they were at and to get behind the issues which we have in the causes which we have taken on. Aside from trying to elect more women to office and to encourage women to run and keeping lists we do keep files of women who would like to serve in appointed positions and when the governor or the mayor or whoever it may be was to appoint someone to a commission. Then we bring forth our files and say well look here are a lot of qualified women and we certainly need more women on these commissions. So here you are so don't say you don't have any women to appoint the other. Aside from this we get involved with issues and the major tasks which we have taken for this year is the passage of the Wisconsin and the National Equal Rights Amendments.
After that is done we hope to organize a little more thoroughly This year we basically I don't know how we got as much done in the first year of operation as we did with the because of organization we had maybe it was because of that because they were so flexible. Most of them have been liberal have been working for instance for McCarthy or something I was interested to find out what proportion of women that. Are interested in being appointed for for instance political positions. Because it seems to me that most of the women who are representative of the feminist movement are the looser spectrum. And I don't know if I would think they should be some kind of balance it is that you know if I don't try we we try very hard in fact it's incorporated into our bylaws and everything we we are multi-part mount multi partisan for instance and like at our state convention any party which had 10 members
in attendance at the state convention could elect a delegate to the State Policy Council of the Women's Political Caucus we really go bend over backwards to accommodate everyone and we want that broad representation. We have had a problem most of the women I guess who tend. To liberal women tend to get liberated faster or vice versa they get liberated become liberal I don't know. We do have. A few Republican women and they are trying very hard to get other Republican women you know into the con also desensitising party is right. So we have to identify the feminist movement with. The opinion of a radical movement because you know you can't correlate his opinion and his ideas were dented by with her. Because. I think the point of the political caucus is not you know I know that I would even hesitate to call it a feminist organization I think a lot of people a lot of women joined it because they've been
politically active and you know they may become more famous after they're around because you know nationally so many of us are feminists that are in the political caucus we tend to have you know in terms of Republican women we tend to have Republican women who are who represent the more liberal aspects of their party. You know. And I you know I think it's been a it will tend to make you know the more Republican women we can involve it will tend to make the Republicans more sensitive to women's issues and the women's issues that you know most of us are concerned about are not that tied up with party. You know you talk to Republican women and they will say that actually their convention was more receptive to women than the Democratic line and I think there are some areas where that claim may be justified even though their representation was not quite as quite as good in terms of numbers of women. I think good in general observation can be made about the Republican Party and its role in the United States politics which is traditional to maintain traditional
values and traditional positions on things and the traditional role for a woman is not to be liberated. And so you know it's easily understandable but I I think that you brought up a very important point and one that has to be met by women. And we have to because I think it's too bad to do it with this woman and you know political position as being radical. It's just you know. I. I feel very strongly that. The feminist movement and also and I agree with Carol-Lee wouldn't really call it political talk as a feminist movement I think a lot of us who have gotten into it have become feminists. But I think we have to be careful not to not to just go off into our little liberal liberated you know world. Because I think if we really look at our own process the way we came up in the way we had our eyes opened and the way we began to
to see ourselves I think you know we can identify with people who are having a hard time understanding. What this whole women's revolution is about and I think we have to be. Very careful to to go out to to reach out to women and men too and to try and to try and educate and not to raise hackles. Because I think there has been a backlash and I think we. Know to to to reach people. You know we have to. We have to be careful how we go about things which is another reason it's good to see why there are a lots of different women's groups say because we all represent a little different point of view. Another thing it was a cream you were talking about this the political caucus has refuses to take a stand in favor as a group now of one political candidate or another for the very reasons that you're talking about you know if we began to support candidates because at the present
time there's this. Well actually I think our local caucus so came out mostly independents as a matter of fact. Yes they're a very high proportion of people who did not feel themselves either a Democrat or Republican but you know what if we started endorsing candidates then it would be difficult because you know because there are most of us are liberal and most probably then if I'm more with the Democratic Party and Republican Party it would be where we would no longer be we couldn't be bipartisan anymore. This has been a subject of much discussion in our caucus. I mean when it comes up every day at every annual meeting usually it it that every detail you know is meeting too. But we just reaffirmed our non endorsement policy. And some of the some of the really I guess strong feminists you could say say that you know claim that that. We're moving too slowly in this sort of thing that we really should indorse for the for the cause of women but for the reasons Carol as mentioned we don't do it.
Let's go there's also the problem of if you're going to want in a man running against each other in the man is much more sensitive to women's issues than the woman you're in trouble. That's right I was going to mention this we don't we don't as individuals I think follow any particular line either as far as endorsing a woman over a man I think that we each have to balance the how to each candidate's stand on the issues that are important to us. And each candidate's stand on women's issues and then. Come out as individuals either to work for the candidate that we have you know that we have chosen or to not work in as the case may be. The conservative groups in Madison and the women in these groups are put in a position where they're they're threatened by radical issues of them them and. Yet. They're
not really accepted in the man's conservative role. They're stuck in the middle so they view many of the things that that caucus brings up this thread. For them. Because of the types of issues that are on the liberal spectrum. So they you know it's it's too bad that you couldn't get together and meet them on a lot of common ground. An economy grounded as well as women in politics not as political opposers to understand how this is how we try to do. Because they don't trust you as women because of your issues as being very. Far from there. This is not a problem from the very beginning that original national conference it was called had this to me whether there would be positions taken on issues or not rather because something to support women in politics.
I think leave with yourself and I think the feeling was and I think Bella Abzug has said many times that well arst Well we're definitely we're going to emphasize getting women into politics. You know women of every political. Spectrum and. Eradicating sexism that at the same time we didn't want to be putting new wine into old old jars. We didn't want to be placing you know white middle class. Male establishment types with with white middle class female you know establishment guys we want basically want sensitive. People you know in politics whether they be men or women. So we tried to strike some sort of happy medium here and I realize that that we're not pleasing everyone.
But I there's really that I don't think this dime is ever going to be answered I think it's going to be with us. For the duration as soon as you see it you know if you if you're not going to support any particular issues you know and just support women in politics there are very few of us that could do that you know the same dilemma that that Mary-Louise was terror if you have a man that is more sensitive to things you care about than women you know there's no reason then to support that woman you can be supportive in her effort to run you know and say you know encourage women not to not run because they're women but you know if there are I've met you know I I tend to get into campaigns because of particular issues I'm interested in whether it's the war you know whatever and I think this office and this you know I wasn't being particularly sure that was for the facilitation. And. Yeah and that's how I thought it was. Apparently that's not it. It's more issue oriented.
Well I don't know whether you could you know I we don't support we don't support individual candidates because of this because of you know not all of us can support a woman over any man you know and you if you constantly had to make this sort of a choice about whether to support a woman or not you know she got up and spoke and we chose the man you know that is more damaging than if we you know maintain a balance I think that what happens in the caucus is that it's a very fertile ground for workers for a candidate so when there is a woman candidate a part of our you know a part of our group goes off and works for that candidate. Many tests their parts working for two opposing candidates which doesn't make for the best feelings all the time but that's happened you know. So it is a you know it's a it's a valuable thing in terms of providing support for women is just that as a cock for the caucus as a whole has chosen to go this way because these sorts of decisions we've had women run for office that have been supported by a part of the caucus that have not supported all of our issues either.
You know I think the Borsen issue is often the dividing line between. You know women that feel that they're feminists and not or whatever he know and it's a it's a very emotional there are lots of moral values that go into making a decision on that issue. There are many people in the caucus that do not support it even though you know the caucus the National Caucus I believe has a stand for it but there are many people in the caucus that have serious reservations you know and would never get we you know would would never get up and speak for abortion for instance you know in this there have been women candidates who've been supported by some members of the caucus that have not supported the abortion issue and that has you know that's meant that some people in the caucus could not support her because for them that was the important issue. But for many others it was no deterrent. Do you think there are some issues on which we can find a common ground which are very clearly related to to the progress of women one would like the Equal Rights Amendment for instance and women of any political party.
Can the dividing line on that is not what political party you belong to whether you're a liberal conservative. It's basically a matter of whether or not you. Believe in equal rights you know and that's about is as broad a ground as you can get. There are other issues such as. Employment questions perhaps some employment legislation will come up before the legislature. Well as a caucus again no matter. It's very easy to reach agreement no matter what your political party on an issue such as that. If we like because it relates directly to women. And so those are the types of things I think where we find our common ground. I think also maybe I could get into some of the how we how we work the mechanism and maybe that will explain a little better. We have in the second district we have a policy committee which consists of 25 people. And both Carolyn and myself are on that and.
We need to sort of steer the the basic course and to take care of things as they come up. Then we have at least two annual meetings that would be district y y as a district I'm talking about we're going to use to along the lines of the Second Congressional District and we try and have that meeting in other parts of the district not always in Madison although Madison tends to be a logical place to congregate because of the government being in the heart of the government. And at these meetings what we usually do we may have a speaker that we usually break up into workshops and these workshops have to do quite often with. Sort of strategy. For campaigning. Strategy for getting women into politics. And as Carol said this tends to be a very good vehicle for women who want to run for office to come there and not only to find out some of the mechanics how to do it but to recruit workers for a campaign. And I think what we always try to do whether whether as whether as individuals we
choose to endorse a woman are to work for a woman or not. And that and despite the fact that we cannot as a caucus and Doris a woman I think we always. Try to give her the the assistance she needs to get a campaign up the ground it is to at least provide her with an opportunity to get some workers provide her with with ideas on how to run a campaign this type of thing sort of supportive. Which you know at least encourages her to run even if we can't support her in the final analysis. We also have at these at these meetings sometimes we have issues workshops. Now the equal rights of the Wisconsin Equal Rights Amendment basically arose out of our first district wide meeting. And some people. Think Midge Millers and Norma Briggs's erging And Mary Louise and a few other people and Carol got interested
decided to call. They have a workshop on the Equal Rights Amendment. And tossed around the idea of having Wisconsin Equal Rights Amendment and out of that it grew and the people who were interested in working on their particular thing worked on it. Other women in the caucus are interested in. Perhaps employment problems. Basically people women who join the caucus can take up that issue which they're most concerned with. Myself I tend more to work on the organizational business of the caucus plus working for candidates as an individual. And I also have a special interest in sexism in education. And I hope to work more in that area. This in the future it's also another issue that most people agree on right. I think it was in my district and she worked in my campaign by the way. Yes. I think also I think I mentioned that we at times lobby for
legislation again legislation that we can find a common ground on and agree on and something that isn't going to divide the caucus. I think I can fairly say that we tried this not to avoid issues that would have divided us. But but to discuss them in such a way that people are not going that we're not going to lose people I think we try as I say to bend over backwards to to accommodate viewpoints in the caucus. You know I think in response to her question I love the whole position of the of the more conservative women have it seems to me that if they really don't feel comfortable on the Women's Political Caucus they should organize themselves and or groups that become as large an effect of RHO's possible. In the country. That would be useful I would think. And give them a more comfortable place to go. You know I think any way that women can approach those themselves as you know is fine if they can feel comfortable in one organization you know then. Start a new organization or go to
another.
Program
Women in politics: The experience
Contributing Organization
Wisconsin Public Radio (Madison, Wisconsin)
AAPB ID
cpb-aacip/30-95w6n609
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Description
Description
No description available
Broadcast Date
1973-03-02
Created Date
1973-02-02
Topics
Women
Politics and Government
Rights
Content provided from the media collection of Wisconsin Public Broadcasting, a service of the Board of Regents of the University of Wisconsin System and the Wisconsin Educational Communications Board. All rights reserved by the particular owner of content provided. For more information, please contact 1-800-422-9707
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Sound
Duration
00:57:58
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AAPB Contributor Holdings
Wisconsin Public Radio
Identifier: WPR6.T800 MA (Wisconsin Public Radio)
Format: 1/4 inch audio tape
Generation: Master
Duration: 00:58:29
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Citations
Chicago: “Women in politics: The experience,” 1973-03-02, Wisconsin Public Radio, American Archive of Public Broadcasting (GBH and the Library of Congress), Boston, MA and Washington, DC, accessed March 29, 2024, http://americanarchive.org/catalog/cpb-aacip-30-95w6n609.
MLA: “Women in politics: The experience.” 1973-03-02. Wisconsin Public Radio, American Archive of Public Broadcasting (GBH and the Library of Congress), Boston, MA and Washington, DC. Web. March 29, 2024. <http://americanarchive.org/catalog/cpb-aacip-30-95w6n609>.
APA: Women in politics: The experience. Boston, MA: Wisconsin Public Radio, American Archive of Public Broadcasting (GBH and the Library of Congress), Boston, MA and Washington, DC. Retrieved from http://americanarchive.org/catalog/cpb-aacip-30-95w6n609