The MacNeil/Lehrer Report; 6173; El Salvador & The Soviets

these these these these these these loose the funding for this program has been provided by the station and other public television stations and by grants from exxon corporation the corporation for public broadcasting and at and t and the bell system company has ever in the mountains of el salvador it's people are waging a bloody civil war or struggle in which the reagan administration wants to draw the line against soviet and human interference right

the peak of the kids back a former us ambassador to el salvador robert white today imposed proposals for increased us military aid to stop common is that guerilla warfare there mr white told a congressional subcommittee the real threat to el salvador's government came not from the left but from the extreme right left is broken and declining he said at the same time three democratic members of congress told the subcommittee the salvadoran army or by far the greatest responsibility for violence and terrorism and el salvador he accused the administration of quote accusations approaching hysteria about nicaraguan cuban and soviet involvement in arms supplies to the solid on left on monday the state

department issued a white paper cleaning definite evidence of the soviet union and cuba and others that supplied two hundred tons of arms to leftist guerillas moscow today officially denied that accusation the government of british prime minister margaret thatcher who arrives tonight for talks with mr reagan today announced formal support for us policy tonight is el salvador the right place for reagan to get tough with commoners and robert why is a career foreign service officer who was the us ambassador to el salvador for the last year of the carter administration we get crossways with the incoming reagan people after his name appeared on a so called transition team hit list a list of ambassadors slated for removal on grounds they supported carter's human rights policy the list was leaked to the press and white took offense complain publicly the reagan people were undermining his efforts in el salvador and one of the first acts after assuming office secretary of state alexander haig replaced white siding is having gone

public as the reason what has been in washington a waiting reassignment ever since and today marked the first time he has spoken out on the el salvador situation we have an excerpt from his testimony before the house subcommittee and then we'll be back to talk to the acting assistant secretary of state for inner american affairs john bush now and senator paul tsongas a member of the senate foreign relations committee first the testimony of former ambassador white beginning with his answer to a question from congressman clarence long and whether the leftist guerilla threat justifies us military aid to the el salvador government over the last year yeah yeah twenty fourteen and i think the wealthy have

always been abused and my kenyan directed towards finding a political solution there is a military dimension to the prom but it's important to note that the leftist group that in my opinion involved in nevada logged by the pentagon and it's instructive to note that the good amount of violent offenses and then there are important thank you limited government this final offensive without one coming from the

united states it is the main it's important for the self respect of the ruins an important for the authenticity all clear attempts to form a new government to bring profound economic social and political change to el salvador that to the extent possible they accomplished this effort themselves and without the president's all are a number of american advisers or importance of oregon amounts of military equipment which i live events and others that have not basically and then

according to president reagan quoted and yesterday to watch star rating told reporters it was no danger the us would become involved in the vietnam like situation in el salvador he said he had no intention to permit that kind of involvement yet one us official talking about sending military advisers admitted quote we risk we recognize the risk and all of salvador is a risky country he said us soldiers on field exercises my present tempting targets of the growers who have engaged in actions against government forces across the country the official also said that if us army personnel were wounded or killed by grows it would provoke the us to come down on their necks and they wouldn't want that at all and other words is a recognition by the president's own military staff that there is that risk that we send troops into

a i wonder if you could comment on whether this would create the risk of a larger larger involvement i mean it was inevitable this pope would and i think that i don't know what they do i'll have a great sympathy for the military in vietnam because i thought that was the civilians responsibility to define the mission or maybe the mission

i know this young people they've executed them that on the mere suspicion that they're letters also about is are we really going to send military advisors and met two to be part of that bill solutions have to be a rapprochement reconciliation of this album family and you don't get that by going after the so called guerillas many of whom are fighting not there because the marxist

leninist but because they fear that if they give up that will be executed by the by the security forces do you deny that there is a threat to el salvador via this insurgency is that true and virgin moon there's no question about that is would you define authentic sending totally indigenous does el salvador they're there any outside elements of all do you understand the insurgent movement and also one in fifth were the saga of you will work was lending assistance or not fifty years all and justice of systematically destroying the political institutions of that country have brought about a polarized nation where people gave up on moderate solution a democratic

solution inside a union you have that advantage of the world by nationalist revolutions the importance of what we've done and also if we have supported a new model a profound social economic and social thing we have a bad support to a government that wants to uphold defend the truth and re about it op ed that a peaceful revolution for the peaceful evolution of the obama and then hopefully and then this if you are disabled so you must

maintain that fervor for political change and for bringing this country for the elections the official reagan administration position on el salvador was given of the house committee later in the day by the acting assistant secretary of state for inner american affairs is john bush now also a career foreign service officer who served their first semester wyden says we should not send more military help el salvador is it wrong yes i think he is wrong we are facing as the paper that we haven't used the region in the last few days indicates an immense input of more mature war material to the rebels in el salvador from the companies that were on that long from ethiopia from eastern europe through cuba and nicaragua president carter decided on january seventeenth that we would have to supply the government forces in el salvador with ammunition with rifles with other things in order to meet this

if this sort of inflow continues it seems to me that there are only two possibilities of salvadorans after lost more poor country it does not produce its own want more material that cannot produce bullets and guns or helicopters and trucks odd that the outside supply of the insurgents are either someone supplies the government or the outcome will be pre ordained but you know what the ambassador white says the solution should be able to come in a political solution not a military solution and that's why what we did not hear but was also this testimony was that by giving military aid we're preclude in a political solution the senate where precluding it seems to me that is the communist that have precluded a truly political solution that the very act of supplying some eight hundred tons of of guns and bullets and so forth makes it very hard for there to be a political solution however the us has been very restrained in el salvador we believe this is about a wife instead apply lethal material until

january seventeenth it was the cognitive side that made this basically a military confrontation and we would hope that that infiltration would stop that the vitriol already in the country would be would be used up so it can return to weigh a political fight that's also true the wishes of the government of el salvador they have said they are prepared to negotiate at the top have called for elections next year and i have urged those that have gone to lay them down they have offered amnesty to those that do so and urged them to return to a more peaceful way of political competition and is the left the insurgents the continents and el salvador that have refused that offer as the venom a either a fresh reports on leave the flow of arms from libya from the cubans and from mia former soviet bloc since the reagan administration first spoke out and since the issuance of giglio white paper on monday what i'm afraid that our intelligence is not very real time so i can't say that there have been any report since

monday but on the other hand we might well not have those reports there are some indications that the flow of arms from nicaragua in the last couple weeks has slowed possibly even stopped we are examining that very carefully we certainly hope that facilitates on the la and we know that last fall for a moment they stop infiltration because of the marches that we made in nicaragua when we saw some signs of this we didn't know that how extensive it was but the fact that it stops for this week of next week isn't necessarily inclusive but we have seen here something that even goes beyond el salvador as the common is that workers i caught has rounded up fees on because they wanted to use western arms to give credible denial from all over the world where they had a veteran on from ethiopia jet captured us are pressured us airlines that's right that's what most of these and have moved them out in a complicated way into el salvador suggest that they could just as well move them into honduras or into guatemala going to someplace

in africa or into a number of places around the world and the point that this administration is making is that the sort of relations that we can have with the congress countries will depend on how they deal with that issue not just in el salvador but more broadly and el salvador's the crisis area right now and the theory being that if you don't stop it now and i will go to honduras guatemala and i regret that other countries as well there's no reason to think that the way i think by their own admission the ambition of the communist side is to have common as governments and just as many places as possible what is your assessment of the risk of are sending military advisors to sal salvador in terms of a long longer involvement life of a robin i think were very heavily be determined on whether or not this infiltration can be stopped but i can say that at the moment we're not considering sending any people that we would call advisers people that will go out on combat missions or with the salvadoran forces what we are considering sending i what we have a

few in country now are people to provide training to the el salvador and forces they're not a sophisticated military force for example when we provided six helicopters it has been necessary for us to prepare to revive thirteen or fourteen people to help them to learn how to manage you was maintain the helicopter but these people do not go on any combat missions with el salvador and that is sort of options that we are considering now ambassador white raised the question i didn't know what these people would do if people going for a training mission it seems to me it's fairly clear what they do they train the people like you at today's hearing in the house a number of congressmen voice the fear that more us military involvement could lead to another vietnam that fear is shared by democratic senator paul tsongas a massachusetts a member of the foreign relations committee senator it seems there's a fundamental difference of opinion here as to whether the international

communist activity and now so much more documented by the state department should be the thing that most concerns the united states or whether the violence but he also non military are against what the ambassador described as a guerrilla movement that would be there anyway shared most concern the united states werner i was this live the issues should be how you resolve conflicts in the country now i'm listening to all this reminds me of twenty years ago when we had a situation where there was violence and there was an equities it had been there for a number of years in his movement spread out beyond spring up out of nowhere and yet the answer seems to be the military that somehow to give them enough arms the house will be resolved now what kind of message are we sending to the country to give you an example we had for american nuns were murdered in that country all the evidence a recent time magazine piece pointed to the government no one about a family's

pain in that after the fbi has evidence as to the involvement in the government has not seen that our government twice second to pursue those investigations are well within and the fact is what killed four americans and we don't consider that important then within a message clearly we clearly cannot care about what you do here on people you know control the violence of the right wing elements in the military he never could have a solution them and harmony going to put in helicopters advisors american troops or whatever we went through exactly the same scenario back in sixty one sixty two in vietnam he where again so you say no increased military aid to the ozone or an armed forces is potentially possible to have a package that would ultimately result in some kind of assistance but not without a commitment on the part of the government to re form those are right wing elements of the military that are causing much of the violence i think everyone agrees with them well mr bush lawyers secretary just

says if you don't send arms to the assault on military then andy i'm supplies from communist nations to the leftist guerillas continue they will inevitably women topple a government that has a window you have the leftist guerilla movement have very great effort that effort failed you haven't go in mexico talking about willingness to sit out the reagan administration here is the timeframe and once that was passed in the very difficult to negotiate any kind of political settlement and rather spend the time waving these white pages which illegitimate i think what you find that would clearly because of his system either the effort should be any political solution with the party's clearly indicating a willingness to sit down we let this thing go by the sounds going around school when more more dead state plays in a kind of northern island of his theories out and then you can never get that genie back in the bottle what would your response to be into all

was evidence of her as secretary called it the commonest network arms supplier arms a big advocate of very serious that they get that mean very heavily and nicaraguans in and acumen the numbers to stop and the danger is having that is your primary focus so that the nines in the mirror that does a new things isn't the message about terror isn't that we accept that kind of terrorism is no pressure on the government responded song military know push economic reform you end up with a military solution in fact to a political problem in sweets are in vietnam it just doesn't work apart from your own personal here's how do you think the url newly constituted foreign relations committee is likely to respond to such a request from the reagan administration well i think we're in a very different here i think my view is probably a minority within the violations committed any go through cycles a nanny country's history and the fact that we could be sitting here talk of another domino theory

that we could be talked about sending military advisers suggest that the pendulum has now swung the much that's where it was in the early sixties you said the first committee workers to request if i had to guess i would say led sectarian this question that the center brought up also investor why brought up in his testimony today that the violence in el salvador most of that is coming from the right wing at least that is the charge rather than that of the leftist guerrillas is that a charge that there you work what what's the stake the party's position on that i would not agree that the majority of the violence is coming from the right wing the drew which is the organization of the largest groups of the lab to have themselves claim to have killed six thousand people in the last year so i don't believe everything they say that is they're crying in many cases i think it is hard to tell who's responsible for the killing there are certainly are for example as the salvadoran forces have found very safe houses of the

insurgents they often find military and vehicle for suggesting that these people put on the uniforms and then saudi forth in the hope that the government will be blamed for killing people that's not to say that there are not killing me that aside from those in combat which everybody has lived with that there are now articulate it told from irresponsible and actions by people in the military that is trying to believe in this under control they have put out a new call of content what marcia literally hundreds of soldiers in el salvador separated them from the pool was punished them for the sort of thing that working very hard to get on top of this problem they're trying to improve their transportation and communication so that they can get them together in larger groups have better control this is something that they see as a big problem and we are certainly supportive of them in reducing this trial is probably not a problem that is going to be a hundred percent controlled from one day to the next my own sense is that has been

getting steadily better over the last year although there's still a long ways to go i'd also like to go back with the senate on this statement of pickup soccer dude you feel that it's getting steadily butter or as right wing violence or government bonds and that's clearly the state department position that if you read a year times this past sunday on that does not suggest that is the case andrew talk about punishing the soldiers of what kind of punishment has a new job that he would engage in violence you talk about we don't know where the violence came for why does the government insist on a full investigation on the murders of old ones who are your people and mind you haven't done any job we have to win six the fbi testified in a hearing this afternoon that they have been working very closely olive had six fbi people in the country want is just returned today in response to the question from one of the congressman's rather the fbi thought that the

people will be investigated people in el salvador or following up in the usual way they said well at times they want to show what they should know they're not very experienced people but once suggested we made their response was gone and they looked at those twenty offices and military people who were near the site of the time and compare that with the fingerprints they found in the van and that would be a fundamental for a step to think that having done that the fbi testified that they're in the process of that the sector i ask you the other major point that senator sanders is raising is that the approach that the government our government is using now is is it isn't a wrong focus observe the primary focus is wrong focusing strip number one on the possible involvement of the soviet bloc in cuban get in his arms well i think it's a matter of what is first in time partly i don't think there's any difference between is that there are many problems in el salvador they're all have to be worked out but i think we are convinced and if we

don't meet this threat that the commonest opposed to his with a very big input of mature el train people and so forth that if that is not that we know what salvador will be in the future there won't be any chance for a very informal for democracy it will become a totalitarian state so that in the time sequence if you don't mean that bad you've lost all kinds of that doesn't mean that while working on that we shouldn't play as much attention as we possibly can to leave other problem i think about minutes of labrador deserves a lot of credit ford is doing in these areas just this monday distributed the first two hundred titles to people on the land until a pro it has continued with a three four despite all the economic problems is that despite the fight is announced a program for elections has offered amnesty it has invited the other side repeatedly to come to the table when the bishops in el salvador said they would mediate the government accepted the law review our malware some senators as <unk> asked to deal with united states would have and a paternal

relationship here is not for us to decide something with the opposition and now we'll find that i wanted you go to mexico and meet with congo in syria has to offer me usc offering to us it is not for us to make a decision whether we would prefer to have the walkie talkie going under these two individuals are very close to what it was the presidential candidate who was the vice presidential candidate and seventy two were not in a position of trying to choose between capital to jump again at camp david and we bring parties together we probably did you have the major left us civilians and i wanna negotiate on a little bit we were seeking

send two dollars to the macneil lehrer with bach's three four five new york new york one or one on one mcneil lehrer report was produced by wnet nw at it they aren't solely responsible for its content funding for this program has been provided by the station and other public television stations and by grants from exxon corporation the corporation for public broadcasting and at and t and a bell system company it's b you're only men move